Jos. A Banks, Buy 1, Get 5 Free.

[Nitantnel]

Ok, a little forgiving for an Oholei Torah'nick...

[Nitantnel]

Depends SPG Platinum may get you a suite, but with Hyatt you really need to be Diamond to get a suite.

So Dan, to make some fun you bother to write out a post but to answer my question you don't!? I'm offended. 

[WAM]

This is a great shayla for a posek. I wonder if this is a different shayla than the buy one suit for $177 get one for $57 . There, at least you are not paying $0 which they clearly would not be maskim to.

http://www.rabbileff.net/shiurim/answers/1750-1999/1903.mp3
Were you the one who wrote the question? Just curious

[elikay]

http://www.rabbileff.net/shiurim/answers/1750-1999/1903.mp3
Were you the one who wrote the question? Just curious

I misread it Rabbi Eleff!

[AsherO]

http://www.rabbileff.net/shiurim/answers/1750-1999/1903.mp3
Were you the one who wrote the question? Just curious

Nice find.

[Dan]

Wow, sounds like I was 100% on the money according to that psak!

[dans fan]

Wow, sounds like I was 100% on the money according to that (psak)!

[Daniel]

Yes, that was me. They limited the # of characters I could enter so the question came out kind of brief. The psak wasn't 100% clear in terms of what happens if you don't know the store's policy. The rav also said if you hide the facts it is stealing. Is only presenting one receipt hiding the facts?

I also submitted the question to http://www.businesshalacha.com/

[Dan]

-It's clear that you don't have to know the store policy and you don't have to contact their HQ's to check if your local store is following policy.
-If both suits are on the same receipt you can return one suit and let the store do as they wish.
-You can't return one suit that's on its own receipt, unless you also show the store the other receipt when you do the return.  Presenting one receipt when they're on 2 receipts would be hiding the facts.

[Daniel]

-It's clear that you don't have to know the store policy and you don't have to contact their HQ's to check if your local store is following policy.

What do you think the Rav meant by "It really depends on what their policy is"

Do you think you need to point out the free item on the other receipt or is handing them a bunch of papers enough disclosure?

[AsherO]

What do you think the Rav meant by "It really depends on what their policy is"

Do you think you need to point out the free item on the other receipt or is handing them a bunch of papers enough disclosure?

I'd say you're toeing a fine line if you're intentionally not disclosing something and you're hoping they'll miss it (i.e. in this case that the one suit was free, or just $57 or whatever). Just my $0.02.

[dans fan]

What do you think the Rav meant by "It really depends on what their policy is"

Do you think you need to point out the free item on the other receipt or is handing them a bunch of papers enough disclosure?

I'd say you're toeing a fine line if you're intentionally not disclosing something and you're hoping they'll miss it (i.e. in this case that the one suit was free, or just $57 or whatever). Just my $0.02.

although i would suggest that you reask  your shaila to someone else. what this person felt is that if they know  and they give it to you for free or for very cheap its ok but if they dont know and they give it to you thinking that that was the real price you are stealing. they must know if you dont tell them and you dont know if they know then it would be a safek stealing according to him

[WAM]

although i would suggest that you reask  your shaila to someone else. what this person felt is that if they know  and they give it to you for free or for very cheap its ok but if they dont know and they give it to you thinking that that was the real price you are stealing. they must know if you dont tell them and you dont know if they know then it would be a safek stealing according to him

? ? ? ? ? ?

[dans fan]

? ? ? ? ? ?

what are your 6 questions

[WAM]

It was hard to understand what you wrote, that's all. Why do you suggest that he ask his question to a different rav?

[dans fan]

i dont think he clearly explained the halacha unless he meant somthing other than i understood

[Daniel]

i dont think he clearly explained the halacha unless he meant somthing other than i understood

+1
The question of how much you need to tell them to make it not "tricking them" is still unclear.

The standard psak in this case is that you can take advtange of the store's policy, even if it doesn't make sense. However, it is still not clear in what circumstances you can assume their policy.

Is the fact that the computer does not take money off the return enough to confirm their policy?
They can see the entire order on the computer, is that enough?
Is giving them both recipets enough?
Or, do I need to give them both reciepts and point it out?

This is the follow up question which is needed.

[Dan]

IMHO if you present the receipt/receipts (i.e. you're not intentionally hiding anything) then it's fine.  They can figure out their own policies and what to do in that case.

[dans fan]

+1
The question of how much you need to tell them to make it not "tricking them" is still unclear.


[/quote ]when i said " reask" thats not what i meant, i meant reask not ask a dif q.

The standard psak in this case is that you can take advtange of the store's policy, even if it doesn't make sense.

where did you get that from, what does it have to do with store policy? the line he drew was if they give it to you you are not stealing i dont think this has anything to do with store policy. all he is saying is if they give to you knowingly its ok, it doesnt have to be store policy.

Is the fact that the computer does not take money off the return enough to confirm their policy?

it has nothing to do with store policy so the comp means nothing.

They can see the entire order on the computer, is that enough?


[/quote  ]i dont think they can see your entire order ime

Is giving them both recipets enough?
Or, do I need to give them both reciepts and point it out?

that is not a q for a rav. a rav can help you with information that you dont know( ex. is this a good eruv) do to your lack of torah knowledge you ask someone who knows more just like ppl who dont read t&c and then ask a q on ddf, someone who did read the t&c can help them out. then there is a posek, that is some one who has the knowledge of lots of sugyos and halacha so he can answer a new q some thing that cannot be found clearly in the t&c and needs a psak that is derived from medameh milsah lemilsa . now there are q that not only does not need a rav, the rav is the wrong person to ask for ex am i allowed to eat from food that was left on the dinning room table in my school?  its obvios that if the owner was mafkir it you can take it, if he wasnt your stealing, so your q is in other words can i think that the owner was mafkir it or not, well that depends there are schools that anyone who wants to leave food for the public they just leave it on the table and no one leaves private things around, then there are places that people leave their private cereal box on the table for the next breakfast. how is the rav to know what is done in your school? so its a terrible q to ask a rav. what a sales rep know i jos bank when you bring a return and receipt every location is dif how is a rabbi to know you should take a vote on ddf what they think.

This is the follow up question which is needed.

  now to answer your q. if when the sale rep looks at the receipts they know the sale you got then they can figure out their own policies but if they dont know the sale you got then its stealing (according to that rabbi). its not a issue of tricking them its a question of weather or not they are giving it to you knowingly or on the basis that you paid full price. stealing is not dependent on tricking if i give you something of mine without you tricking and i give it to you bc i think its yours, you are stealing. i still think you should ask a dif rav

[smurf]

@dans fan
gotta fix those quote tags