Poll

Do you expect your federal taxes to go up or down?

Up
15 (19%)
Down
34 (43%)
Have no idea
30 (38%)

Total Members Voted: 79

Author Topic: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?  (Read 91739 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #100 on: December 19, 2017, 07:11:48 PM »
You are starting to understand this tax bill without even realizing it.
Yes this bill takes from high tax states, but by class who has money taken from them?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #101 on: December 19, 2017, 07:15:25 PM »
A VAT will tax a higher percentage of the income of the lower classes since they spend more of their income unless distinctions are made for types of consumption. It taxes productivity more so than income in a sense since it is the economic activity itself.
There could be an exclusion for raw food, and possibly some other categories.

The beauty of a VAT is that collection is more efficient.

I don't have all the answers. FairTax.org argue against a VAT and for a consumption tax with a prebate (IIRC).

I found the "999" plan suggested by Herman Cain at the time, to be interesting alternative.
Quote

Who enacts it has little to do with how it ends up. The current income tax system was enacted at 1%. Once it is enacted with bipartisan support now the spenders can do with it as they please.
It might need to come with a constitutional amendment, or at least something that would require a supermajority to change/increase.

I actually think that the best part of the tax bill being voted on right now is the fact that the corporate changes are permanent.

One of the biggest hindrances to business investment since the early days of Obama(care) was the uncertainty. Business investment requires some level of certainty or confidence on the regulatory and tax future environment.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #102 on: December 19, 2017, 07:25:30 PM »
It might need to come with a constitutional amendment, or at least something that would require a supermajority to change/increase.
Which will never happen. Congress will never give up their power over your purse. This precludes all other arguments.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online avromie7

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #103 on: December 19, 2017, 07:32:31 PM »
And the notion that helping corporations helps all segments of the population equally is just as ludicrous.
The job of the government is not to make everything equal, that socialism. The government's job is to keep everything fair.
My parents taught me the haves should help the have-nots. This bill does the opposite.

You keep claiming the middle class is getting a big tax cut. What is big in your mind then we will figure out how much corporations are getting.
That's a very noble thing for you to do, however that is not the governments job, that's why we have charity. When people keep more of their money, they give more charity.
Of course, they could have accomplished the same thing by doing it the opposite way, making the tax cuts for the middle class permanent and those for corporations temporary
If the democrats have the house when the tax cuts expire, they'd love to see the corporate tax cuts go away, that's why we need them to remain permanent. As far as the income tax cuts, they'd never want to be seen as raising taxes on the poor and middle class (Which is what it would be) so they'll extend the cuts.
The Senate parliamentarian has rejected the provision expanding the use of 529 savings accounts for K-12 expenses; though I do agree that this was an overlooked benefit for the yeshiva paying community
Fwiu it's only being removed for homeschooling

Everyone pays SOME taxes. We are taxed so many different ways they don't have to worry about that.

Who do you think needs the tax cuts more, middle class or upper class. Leave politics out of it.
It's not about who can use the money more, that's welfare. It's that people deserve to keep more of their hard earned money so they can decide what to do with it - not the government.



During the campaign Trump promised 4 tax cuts. One for the middle class, one for corporations, to eliminate AMT, to eliminate the estate tax. All are in this bill.
The estate tax is mostly remaining. If it were up to me, I would get rid of the estate tax, and get rid of the steped up basis on inheritances.
That's not why they did it!!!
Of course it is! It's common sense. Your agenda won't allow you to use common sense.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #104 on: December 19, 2017, 07:40:06 PM »
The job of the government is not to make everything equal, that socialism. The government's job is to keep everything fair.
Not everyone shares the same definition of fair.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #105 on: December 19, 2017, 07:41:23 PM »
Your agenda won't allow you to use common sense.
My agenda? You are the one trying to defend this as a tax cut for the middle class. Just admit its main purpose is for the rich then we can have an honest discussion.

If you want to have the middle class pay the same rate as the rich then just be honest and say it.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Online avromie7

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #106 on: December 19, 2017, 07:44:50 PM »


My agenda? You are the one trying to defend this as a tax cut for the middle class. Just admit its main purpose is for the rich then we can have an honest discussion.

If you want to have the middle class pay the same rate as the rich then just be honest and say it.

I asked you if you think it's a good bill, and all you can answer is that it's not a major tax cut for the middle class. You don't discuss the bill itself, all you say is "it's not what they're saying it is"
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline CPA

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #107 on: December 19, 2017, 07:45:37 PM »
My agenda? You are the one trying to defend this as a tax cut for the middle class. Just admit its main purpose is for the rich then we can have an honest discussion.

If you want to have the middle class pay the same rate as the rich then just be honest and say it.
My parents taught me to be happy with what I have and not look at the next person. Your tax refund is going up due to the expanded child tax credit. Why does the fact that someone else is gaining more than you matter to you?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #108 on: December 19, 2017, 07:46:05 PM »

I asked you if you think it's a good bill, and all you can answer is that it's not a major tax cut for the middle class. You don't discuss the bill itself, all you say is "it's not what they're saying it is"
This bill sucks!!! Is that clear enough for you?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #109 on: December 19, 2017, 07:48:07 PM »
My parents taught me to be happy with what I have and not look at the next person. Your tax refund is going up due to the expanded child tax credit. Why does the fact that someone else is gaining more than you matter to you?
Because my parents taught me there is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay for this 1.5 trillion handout to the rich (not all to the rich but figures have been around 80-85%).
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline aygart

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #110 on: December 19, 2017, 07:48:11 PM »
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-statement-withholding-for-2018

Quote
The IRS is continuing to closely monitor the pending legislation in Congress, and we are taking the initial steps to prepare guidance on withholding for 2018. ‎We anticipate issuing the initial withholding guidance (Notice 1036) in January reflecting the new legislation, which would allow taxpayers to begin seeing the benefits of the change as early as February. The IRS will be working closely with the nation's payroll and tax professional community during this process.
This means that people will see the effects of the bill almost immediately (unless Lois Lerner and her ilk purposely drag their feet)

         
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CPA

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #111 on: December 19, 2017, 07:51:34 PM »
Because my parents taught me there is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay for this 1.5 trillion handout to the rich (not all to the rich but figures have been around 80-85%).
Free Lunch?? What about all the people receiving the EIC, Child tax credit, free health care, Hud, food stamps??? Whose paying for that?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #112 on: December 19, 2017, 07:55:19 PM »
Free Lunch?? What about all the people receiving the EIC, Child tax credit, free health care, Hud, food stamps??? Whose paying for that?
We have many problems to deal with. If you want to start a thread to trash those who are able to work but don't and receive these benefits I will gladly join you. That has nothing to do with this tax bill.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline yelped

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #113 on: December 19, 2017, 07:57:11 PM »
Free Lunch?? What about all the people receiving the EIC, Child tax credit, free health care, Hud, food stamps??? Whose paying for that?
Would you rather millionaires pay for that, or middle class who are struggling with having to pay for all the above? This bill makes the middle class pay for more of that burden.

I really don't understand how anyone can argue with the facts. I must not be used to Trumpologic.

Offline aygart

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #114 on: December 19, 2017, 07:57:39 PM »
Because my parents taught me there is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay for this 1.5 trillion handout to the rich (not all to the rich but figures have been around 80-85%).
Which income level is paying more taxes under this bill?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CPA

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #115 on: December 19, 2017, 07:59:54 PM »
Would you rather millionaires pay for that, or middle class who are struggling with having to pay for all the above? This bill makes the middle class pay for more of that burden.

I really don't understand how anyone can argue with the facts. I must not be used to Trumpologic.
Who is paying more with this bill? CM seems to be ticked that someone other than himself is getting a break

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #116 on: December 19, 2017, 08:00:30 PM »
Would you rather millionaires pay for that, or middle class who are struggling with having to pay for all the above? This bill makes the middle class pay for more of that burden.

I really don't understand how anyone can argue with the facts. I must not be used to Trumpologic.
This doesn't have anything to do with Trump. He had no say so what was in the bill. This is a R's wet dream.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #117 on: December 19, 2017, 08:01:42 PM »
CM seems to be ticked that someone other than himself is getting a break
This bill have no or little affect on me. Some of us actually care about others and back it up.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline yelped

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #118 on: December 19, 2017, 08:02:52 PM »
Who is paying more with this bill? CM seems to be ticked that someone other than himself is getting a break
Who's share of the tax is getting the bigger? The middle class. The big guys get the big cuts. The middle class gets a small cut. Not so hard to understand.

Offline CPA

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Re: Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?
« Reply #119 on: December 19, 2017, 08:04:12 PM »
We have many problems to deal with. If you want to start a thread to trash those who are able to work but don't and receive these benefits I will gladly join you. That has nothing to do with this tax bill.
Your issue seems to be with the capitalist society that we live in. Money does not start off with the Government for them to distribute.

The lower income families are already heavily subsidized and don't pay any tax so a tax cut is going to go to those that actually do pay taxes.