Will your federal taxes be going up or down next year?

[avromie7]

I have said probably close to a hundred times that my main reason (issue for you) is because most of the benefits go to the rich/corporations. You can argue or spin all you want but it doesn't change the fact the rich/corporations benefit the most. You agree the rich/corporations benefit the most. You look foolish trying to say now they don't.

Troll of the Year!!

[ExGingi]

What do you mean when you say rich/corporations? Is that the rich (definition?), the corporations, or the rich devided by the corporations (please explain how you do that math)?

BUMP

Why don't we start with definitions before we go into any specifics. Once we get all the definitions straight, we might find out that there's a lot more agreement 'round here.

[davidrotts63]

I have said probably close to a hundred times that my main reason (issue for you) is because most of the benefits go to the rich/corporations. You can argue or spin all you want but it doesn't change the fact the rich/corporations benefit the most. You agree the rich/corporations benefit the most. You look foolish trying to say now they don't.

https://youtu.be/c1E4sQzEcR8

[ChaimMoskowitz]

BUMP

Why don't we start with definitions before we go into any specifics. Once we get all the definitions straight, we might find out that there's a lot more agreement 'round here.

Sure that works.
Low/middle class - 100k or less?

[aygart]

I have said probably close to a hundred times that my main reason (issue for you) is because most of the benefits go to the rich/corporations. You can argue or spin all you want but it doesn't change the fact the rich/corporations benefit the most. You agree the rich/corporations benefit the most. You look foolish trying to say now they don't.

Where did I say they don't?

Ok, what's the problem with the "rich/corporations" getting the biggest benefit?

[avromie7]

Sure that works.
Low/middle class - 100k or less?

I don't have a number, but a family making 250k is not rich.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Where did I say they don't?

Ok so you agree the rich/corporations benefit the most from this bill. So now we can move on to if they should. Are we on the same page?

[aygart]

Ok so you agree the rich/corporations benefit the most from this bill. So now we can move on to if they should. Are we on the same page?

Ok

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Ok

Need to have a beer. 

[ExGingi]

Sure that works.
Low/middle class - 100k or less?

1. What about rich/corporations?
2. In my dictionary definitions don't end with a question mark.
3. Is 100k in NYC the same as 100k in Biloxi? Is 100k for a single person the same as 100k for a family of 8? Is 100k talking about AGI, Net Worth? Gross Receipts? EBITDA?

[aygart]

1. What about rich/corporations?
2. In my dictionary definitions don't end with a question mark.
3. Is 100k in NYC the same as 100k in Biloxi? Is 100k for a single person the same as 100k for a family of 8? Is 100k talking about AGI, Net Worth? Gross Receipts? EBITDA?

This is all irrelevant. How do you want to define middle class that the middle class got more $$$ than the upper class and corps?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

1. What about rich/corporations?
2. In my dictionary definitions don't end with a question mark.
3. Is 100k in NYC the same as 100k in Biloxi? Is 100k for a single person the same as 100k for a family of 8? Is 100k talking about AGI, Net Worth? Gross Receipts? EBITDA?

It seems you want to break it down for every possibility.
The question mark was asking if you agree.
You go ahead and give your definition.

[ExGingi]

This is all irrelevant. How do you want to define middle class that the middle class got more $$$ than the upper class and corps?

I have a problem with separating the corporations and businesses from the middle, or even lower class. Everyone benefits from that.

[henche]

One issue is that we tax income rather than wealth, and in doing so sort of distort what is means to be rich.

A family making 250k is around the 1% of earners, but is likely to be not even close to the 1% of wealth accumulated.

[aygart]

I have a problem with separating the corporations and businesses from the middle, or even lower class. Everyone benefits from that.

So how about we deal with only individuals.

[ExGingi]

So how about we deal with only individuals.

And individuals are the beneficiaries of the business tax breaks.

[ExGingi]

One issue is that we tax income rather than wealth, and in doing so sort of distort what is means to be rich.

A family making 250k is around the 1% of earners, but is likely to be not even close to the 1% of wealth accumulated.

And OTOH a family next door might have an extremely low AGI that qualifies them for Medicaid, but millions in (income producing real estate) assets.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

One issue is that we tax income rather than wealth, and in doing so sort of distort what is means to be rich.

So you want to tax wealth? Why are you jealous of wealthy individuals?

[aygart]

And individuals are the beneficiaries of the business tax breaks.

That is part of the argument that it SHOULD go more to them not IF it goes more to them.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Many state that individuals will get benefits from corporations getting tax breaks. Is so why not cut out the expense of the middle man and give them directly to the individuals. They lower the rate to 21% but how many are already paying an effective tax rate lower than that without the cut?