Author Topic: Rubashkin freed from prison.  (Read 100952 times)

Offline CS1

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #260 on: December 21, 2017, 11:11:59 AM »
Not to be sticky or create popcorn in any way, but was there ever a single individual celebrated like this in 770 since the Rebbe's petirah?

this is not a celebration of an individual. This is a celebration of an outright anti-semitic trial and 27 year decree that would never have had to happen if not for a raid on which no charges or convictions of illegal/underage immigrants occurred as a result. The celebration is the "Padah B'SHalom" (peaceful liberation) as SMR explained last night, was without fighting or forcing. A commutation from the president via legal . Therefore it is a community and world-wide Jewish celebration, including the last day of chanukah and going into the Hei Teves celebration in honor of the fact that the legal gov't entities recognized that the specialized Chabad seforim belong to the Chassidim as a whole, and not to individual family members.

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Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #261 on: December 21, 2017, 11:17:41 AM »
Today, we are all one ^-^
Not to SF in particular but the general sentiment.  B"H the achdus was there the whole time.  The misnagdim advocated for him, visited him, wrote letters etc. 
the achdus started over 8 years ago in this one.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #262 on: December 21, 2017, 11:20:04 AM »
This is a celebration of an outright anti-semitic trial and 27 year decree that would never have had to happen if not for a raid on which no charges or convictions of illegal/underage immigrants occurred as a result.
Rejoice in his release and stop trying to rewrite history.
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Offline CS1

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #263 on: December 21, 2017, 11:40:02 AM »
Rejoice in his release and stop trying to rewrite history.

the fact is that removing 380+ employees from one's packing plant via Obama-gov't paid bussing (May 2008) would crash any business for eternity.

Any owner would have closed up shop immediately. There would be no point in trying to recover. However he tried very hard to keep things running as smoothly as possible.

In addition to tons of meat and food that the community would not have, he also built up local schools, apartment buildings, and many Postville business ventures. Therefore he tried to fix the impossible re-building as best as he could financially in order to keep everyone afloat: http://qctimes.com/news/local/a-year-after-agriprocessors-raid-postville-still-struggles/article_ca5b36ba-3d0d-11de-a14b-001cc4c03286.html
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #264 on: December 21, 2017, 11:44:47 AM »
the fact is that removing 380+ employees from one's packing plant via Obama-gov't paid bussing (May 2008) would crash any business for eternity.

Any owner would have closed up shop immediately. There would be no point in trying to recover. However he tried very hard to keep things running as smoothly as possible.

In addition to tons of meat and food that the community would not have, he also built up local schools, apartment buildings, and many Postville business ventures. Therefore he tried to fix the impossible re-building as best as he could financially in order to keep everyone afloat: http://qctimes.com/news/local/a-year-after-agriprocessors-raid-postville-still-struggles/article_ca5b36ba-3d0d-11de-a14b-001cc4c03286.html
I have nothing against this individual and believe all the great things said here about him. You playing the anti-Semite card is totally unfair. All the way up to and including the supreme court they agreed with the outcome.
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Offline zale

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #265 on: December 21, 2017, 11:51:42 AM »
I have nothing against this individual and believe all the great things said here about him. You playing the anti-Semite card is totally unfair. All the way up to and including the supreme court they agreed with the outcome.

The Supreme court didn’t agree nor disagree. They simply didn’t take the case. There were much more attention-grabbing cases on the docket at the time.

This was a sticky situation. Overruling a federal judge has implications on the Judicial system whether or not the judge is corrupt.

Iowa in particular is a state in play for both Republicans and Democrats. Nobody wants to piss people off there. From what I understand, it took a LOT of convincing to get Trump to do this.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #266 on: December 21, 2017, 11:57:56 AM »
If you believe that people are sentenced unjustly, put your money where your mouth is an advocate on behalf of even 1 person serving an unjust amount of time for a non-violent drug offence. Here's a good place to start: https://www.alternet.org/drugs/15-people-rotting-prison-life-drug-crimes-didnt-hurt-anybody

Offline zale

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #267 on: December 21, 2017, 12:29:55 PM »
If you believe that people are sentenced unjustly, put your money where your mouth is an advocate on behalf of even 1 person serving an unjust amount of time for a non-violent drug offence. Here's a good place to start: https://www.alternet.org/drugs/15-people-rotting-prison-life-drug-crimes-didnt-hurt-anybody

I'm not sure I understand the logic to this "all or nothing" approach. Frankly, it sounds very bitter.

When your family celebrates your birthday, do you demand that they celebrate everyone in the world who has a birthday on the same day? Maybe we shouldn't celebrate engagement parties and weddings because your friends are caught up in the shidduch crisis?

This is a man that gave a tremendous amount to Jewish establishments around the world with an open heart. Nobody that knows him well has a bad word to say about him. He was given an unjust sentence and they felt the need to advocate on his behalf and did so for years and years to no avail. He finally got out and they are celebrating.

Sure, other people have been unjustly imprisoned, but why and how does that affect this story?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #268 on: December 21, 2017, 12:32:51 PM »
I'm not sure I understand the logic to this "all or nothing" approach.
I will take a wild guess that is addressing the elephant in the room.
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Online hvaces42

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #269 on: December 21, 2017, 12:37:04 PM »
If you believe that people are sentenced unjustly, put your money where your mouth is an advocate on behalf of even 1 person serving an unjust amount of time for a non-violent drug offence. Here's a good place to start: https://www.alternet.org/drugs/15-people-rotting-prison-life-drug-crimes-didnt-hurt-anybody
Three strikes laws are the cause of most of these. If SCOTUS could rule them unconstitutional that would solve this issue. However, drug crimes are not victimless. If your kid was the buyer on the other side of most of these $20 transactions you would have an issue with it. So please spare us the phony advocacy. When you stand up at a kiddush the next time you see an underage kid drinking or a teenager smoking pot then I'll buy in.
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Online TimT

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #270 on: December 21, 2017, 12:37:57 PM »
I will take a wild guess that is addressing the elephant in the room.
I’m sure their communities are rallying behind them & doing everything possible to free them.

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #271 on: December 21, 2017, 12:39:57 PM »
First thing when I awoke was to check this thread just to make sure it wasn’t all a dream. :)

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #272 on: December 21, 2017, 12:43:48 PM »
And what about the families on the other side of the Rubashkin fraud?

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #273 on: December 21, 2017, 12:44:11 PM »

Offline zale

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #274 on: December 21, 2017, 12:45:30 PM »
I will take a wild guess that is addressing the elephant in the room.

I'm not sure I understand.

This reminds me of the time Dan posted about the man who was saved from MH380 because he chose not to fly on Shabbos and people were angered that he should not be celebrating because of the other passengers who died on the flight.

You can celebrate your miracle and mourn another's loss. They don't contradict one another.


Offline zale

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #275 on: December 21, 2017, 12:48:25 PM »
And what about the families on the other side of the Rubashkin fraud?

You mean the people who were put out of a job because the Feds showed up with the third infantry and the first airborne division to the meat plant to round everyone up and destroy the company?

You mean the people who were put out of a job because the prosecutors purposely didn't allow any family members to buy AGRI?

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #276 on: December 21, 2017, 12:51:00 PM »
Nobody forced anyone to hire hundreds of illegals and nobody forced him to take out a loan fraudulently to cover it up.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #277 on: December 21, 2017, 12:52:57 PM »
Obviously his sentence was crazy long but so are the sentences of literally THOUSANDS of people

Online hvaces42

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #278 on: December 21, 2017, 12:54:42 PM »
Nobody forced anyone to hire hundreds of illegals Source?and nobody forced him to take out a loan fraudulently to cover it upSource.
Stop making up facts that never happened. He was exonerated on the immigrant hiring charges and he never took out a loan to cover up anything other than operating expenses. His crime was overstating income. His punishment was 1 year per million the bank the bank allegedly lost.
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Offline Dawie

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #279 on: December 21, 2017, 12:56:32 PM »
I'll post what an esteemed colleague of mine wrote to someone sharing your sentiments. Read it carefully: To the sadly misguided fellow Jew who just PM’d me to share his “profound disgust” at my sharing Facebook posts expressing “delight” in Shalom Mordechai Rubashkin’s wondrous release in the final (and most powerful) miraculous moments of Chanukah:

I am choosing to post a response publicly in the event that there are others thinking and feeling like you at this moment:

Nobody I know believes that “bank fraud is a Mitzvah,” and frankly your making blanket statements about “Hareidi Jews commonly justifying white collar crime by cloaking it in a Talit of frum-piety” is anti-Semitic (yes, a Jew who passes judgement on a wide swath of other Jews who might act or dress differently then them is also guilty of the same abhorrent form of racism).

To be sure, Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin is not a saint and has definitely made some serious mistakes along the way. He is not alone. We have all made mistakes in life. And yes, it’s also true that some people’s mistakes might be bigger than others.

Yet your gleeful willingness to brand him a nefarious convict, stands in sharp and shameful contrast to your self-identifying as “accepting and non-judgemental.”

To be so harshly critical of his errors, yet so accepting of others’ behaviour smacks of incredible (and may I add egregious) hypocrisy.

I wholeheartedly agree that none should be “above the law.” Defrauding financial institutions, cheating on income tax or illegally obtaining government funding is a crime. It is fair to say that those who break the law, deserve to be dealt with accordingly.

HOWEVER, a 27 year sentence for bank fraud cannot be justified. That was nothing less than a Dryfuseque display of horribly outrageous anti-Semitism in 21st century America.

The Frum community did not “broadcast tacit approval of criminality” it expressed a beautiful wave of solidarity with a Yid who was unjustly and harshly mistreated for the simple reason that he was (visibly) Jewish.

Quite frankly, to me it was painful (and in fact shocking) that the rest of Am Yisrael didn’t care and instead chose to conveniently look away for the past 8 long years...

The tsunami of joy that you are now seeing flood the web and social media is a remarkable outpouring of Torah-true solidarity and the sincere brotherhood and kinship that should always be felt amongst ALL Yidden.

You are presently witnessing the truest meaning of Ahavat Yisrael, as thousands delight and rejoice in the redemption of a fellow Yid who was unfairly treated just because he was Jewish.

Be inspired by it. Or at least wish you could feel it.

I am not ashamed to admit that I cried upon hearing the news. Not because Shalom Mordechai is my friend. I don’t really know him personally. But because, along with tens-of-thousands of others, I am privileged to feel a familial bond with a fellow Yid.

All I can say is that I wish you could feel it too...

If he was your terrestrial brother, you’d innately overlook his shortcomings and be happy for him tonight... that is the essential meaning of the Mitzvah of Ahavat Yisrael. Self-love blinds us to our own faults, love of our fellow should blind us to their faults as well!!

I pray that Hashem opens your heart and fills it with love... and may the beautiful Achdut Yisrael now sweeping the globe serve as the final catalyst for the arrival of our long awaited redemption through the righteous Moshiach, speedily and in our days, amen! Rabbi Mendel Kaplan