Author Topic: Rubashkin freed from prison.  (Read 81550 times)

Online TimT

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #270 on: December 21, 2017, 12:37:57 PM »
I will take a wild guess that is addressing the elephant in the room.
I’m sure their communities are rallying behind them & doing everything possible to free them.

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #271 on: December 21, 2017, 12:39:57 PM »
First thing when I awoke was to check this thread just to make sure it wasn’t all a dream. :)

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #272 on: December 21, 2017, 12:43:48 PM »
And what about the families on the other side of the Rubashkin fraud?

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #273 on: December 21, 2017, 12:44:11 PM »

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #274 on: December 21, 2017, 12:45:30 PM »
I will take a wild guess that is addressing the elephant in the room.

I'm not sure I understand.

This reminds me of the time Dan posted about the man who was saved from MH380 because he chose not to fly on Shabbos and people were angered that he should not be celebrating because of the other passengers who died on the flight.

You can celebrate your miracle and mourn another's loss. They don't contradict one another.


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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #275 on: December 21, 2017, 12:48:25 PM »
And what about the families on the other side of the Rubashkin fraud?

You mean the people who were put out of a job because the Feds showed up with the third infantry and the first airborne division to the meat plant to round everyone up and destroy the company?

You mean the people who were put out of a job because the prosecutors purposely didn't allow any family members to buy AGRI?

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #276 on: December 21, 2017, 12:51:00 PM »
Nobody forced anyone to hire hundreds of illegals and nobody forced him to take out a loan fraudulently to cover it up.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #277 on: December 21, 2017, 12:52:57 PM »
Obviously his sentence was crazy long but so are the sentences of literally THOUSANDS of people

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #278 on: December 21, 2017, 12:54:42 PM »
Nobody forced anyone to hire hundreds of illegals Source?and nobody forced him to take out a loan fraudulently to cover it upSource.
Stop making up facts that never happened. He was exonerated on the immigrant hiring charges and he never took out a loan to cover up anything other than operating expenses. His crime was overstating income. His punishment was 1 year per million the bank the bank allegedly lost.
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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #279 on: December 21, 2017, 12:56:32 PM »
I'll post what an esteemed colleague of mine wrote to someone sharing your sentiments. Read it carefully: To the sadly misguided fellow Jew who just PM’d me to share his “profound disgust” at my sharing Facebook posts expressing “delight” in Shalom Mordechai Rubashkin’s wondrous release in the final (and most powerful) miraculous moments of Chanukah:

I am choosing to post a response publicly in the event that there are others thinking and feeling like you at this moment:

Nobody I know believes that “bank fraud is a Mitzvah,” and frankly your making blanket statements about “Hareidi Jews commonly justifying white collar crime by cloaking it in a Talit of frum-piety” is anti-Semitic (yes, a Jew who passes judgement on a wide swath of other Jews who might act or dress differently then them is also guilty of the same abhorrent form of racism).

To be sure, Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin is not a saint and has definitely made some serious mistakes along the way. He is not alone. We have all made mistakes in life. And yes, it’s also true that some people’s mistakes might be bigger than others.

Yet your gleeful willingness to brand him a nefarious convict, stands in sharp and shameful contrast to your self-identifying as “accepting and non-judgemental.”

To be so harshly critical of his errors, yet so accepting of others’ behaviour smacks of incredible (and may I add egregious) hypocrisy.

I wholeheartedly agree that none should be “above the law.” Defrauding financial institutions, cheating on income tax or illegally obtaining government funding is a crime. It is fair to say that those who break the law, deserve to be dealt with accordingly.

HOWEVER, a 27 year sentence for bank fraud cannot be justified. That was nothing less than a Dryfuseque display of horribly outrageous anti-Semitism in 21st century America.

The Frum community did not “broadcast tacit approval of criminality” it expressed a beautiful wave of solidarity with a Yid who was unjustly and harshly mistreated for the simple reason that he was (visibly) Jewish.

Quite frankly, to me it was painful (and in fact shocking) that the rest of Am Yisrael didn’t care and instead chose to conveniently look away for the past 8 long years...

The tsunami of joy that you are now seeing flood the web and social media is a remarkable outpouring of Torah-true solidarity and the sincere brotherhood and kinship that should always be felt amongst ALL Yidden.

You are presently witnessing the truest meaning of Ahavat Yisrael, as thousands delight and rejoice in the redemption of a fellow Yid who was unfairly treated just because he was Jewish.

Be inspired by it. Or at least wish you could feel it.

I am not ashamed to admit that I cried upon hearing the news. Not because Shalom Mordechai is my friend. I don’t really know him personally. But because, along with tens-of-thousands of others, I am privileged to feel a familial bond with a fellow Yid.

All I can say is that I wish you could feel it too...

If he was your terrestrial brother, you’d innately overlook his shortcomings and be happy for him tonight... that is the essential meaning of the Mitzvah of Ahavat Yisrael. Self-love blinds us to our own faults, love of our fellow should blind us to their faults as well!!

I pray that Hashem opens your heart and fills it with love... and may the beautiful Achdut Yisrael now sweeping the globe serve as the final catalyst for the arrival of our long awaited redemption through the righteous Moshiach, speedily and in our days, amen! Rabbi Mendel Kaplan

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #280 on: December 21, 2017, 12:56:59 PM »
Obviously his sentence was crazy long but so are the sentences of literally THOUSANDS of people
You are comparing career criminals to a first time white collar offender. Who close to you got a raw deal that you cant stand to see that this miracle happened? You sound like you have way too much at stake here.
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Online Dawie

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #281 on: December 21, 2017, 12:58:28 PM »
another from Rabbi YY Schochet
Can you think of another case where 107 different justice personnel weighed in? Can you think as to why? Did you not celebrate when Jonathan Pollard was freed? Is this a case of double standards or just being ill-informed? Have a read: 107 former Justice officials think this case was handled unjustly. DOJ must act.
Philip B. Heymann is a former deputy attorney general under President Bill Clinton and assistant attorney general under President Jimmy Carter. He is the James Barr Ames professor of law emeritus at Harvard University Law School.
Last week, President Obama granted clemency to 153 individuals who had been incarcerated under mandatory minimum drug-sentencing laws, bringing to more than 1,100 the number of clemency petitions the administration has granted. “You don’t just try to hammer everybody for as long as you can, because you can,” Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates told the New York Times.
That is the right attitude for someone tasked with the fair administration of justice. Unfortunately, Yates and Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch have, for the past year, rebuffed efforts by me and many other former senior Justice Department officials to even discuss another prosecution in which justice fell far short: the case of Sholom Rubashkin, a Brooklyn-born rabbi who was sentenced to 27 years for bank fraud.
Rubashkin, a 57-year-old father of 10, has already served seven years for the crime, which ordinarily merits no more than three years. Worse, his sentence was based on perjured testimony and prosecutorial misconduct.
If even a few highly respected prosecutors think a particular case was handled unjustly, resulting in a vastly excessive sentence, the department’s representatives should be prepared at least to discuss the reasons. In Rubashkin’s case, 107 former Justice Department officials, including five former attorneys general, six former deputy attorneys general (myself included), two former FBI directors, 30 former federal judges and other leading jurists, have sought to meet with senior officials of the department we once served. The only response: a form letter from an assistant attorney general stating that no meeting could take place while Rubashkin was also pursuing his case in court.
Meanwhile, Kevin Techau, the U.S. attorney in Iowa (where Rubashkin was prosecuted), has suggested that Rubashkin used his financial resources to buy the support of so many prominent justice officials. Not only has Rubashkin lost everything he owned in this case, his wife and children now depend heavily on the support of their community for their needs. Moreover, all 107 of us are working on this pro bono. Among other things, former deputy attorneys general Larry Thompson, Charles Renfrew and I have traveled to distant meetings and volunteered considerable time to this matter, all on our own nickel.
The facts are clear: Rubashkin was vice president of Agriprocessors, a kosher meatpacking plant based in Postville, Iowa. In May 2008, more than 500 federal immigration agents raided the plant and arrested hundreds of undocumented workers. The raid resulted in the company declaring bankruptcy. Rubashkin was arrested a short time later and charged with bank fraud.
And this is where things went terribly wrong. The sentence for bank fraud depends on the amount of the loss to creditors. In this case, the prosecution deliberately increased the amount of the loss — and thus the length of Rubashkin’s sentence.
Independent assessors had valued Agriprocessors’ assets at $68 million. Yet evidence uncovered after the sentencing showed that prosecutors interfered in the bankruptcy proceedings, threatening nine prospective buyers of the business that the company’s assets would be seized by the government if any member of the Rubashkin family stayed active in the firm after the bankruptcy sale. No other relative has ever been charged by these prosecutors. Aaron Rubashkin, the founder and family patriarch, was critical to the company’s value. Brands such as Aaron’s Best were built on his name. He possessed the institutional knowledge and connections throughout the kosher meat-processing business. By effectively removing Aaron Rubashkin, prosecutors destroyed the company’s value.
All nine prospective investors — including one who offered $40 million — walked away from the sale. Agriprocessors then sold for $8.5 million, resulting in a huge loss to creditors and what is essentially a life sentence for Sholom Rubashkin.
In an effort to cover their tracks, prosecutors denied at Rubashkin’s sentencing that they had interfered in the bankruptcy-sale process. The prosecutors knew that the bank, the victim whose collateral was at stake, was upset with their interference. Legal counsel for the bank sent prosecutors a letter complaining about their actions. However, prosecutors failed to provide that letter as well as other evidence to Rubashkin’s defense team.
Instead, prosecutors offered testimony to support their claims that there was no interference with prospective buyers. But handwritten notes, recently discovered by Rubashkin’s attorneys, prove there was a meeting at which the prosecutors imposed their “No Rubashkins” edict. In determining the amount of the loss to creditors, the sentencing judge explicitly relied on this counsel’s false testimony. Prosecutors were present, but no prosecutor pointed out the falsity to the judge, who explicitly stated her reliance on it.
I am saddened by the unwillingness of the department’s senior leaders to even discuss the injustice that more than 100 of their predecessors and former judges find evident in the Rubashkin case. Experienced former prosecutors and career Justice Department officials view this case as a stain on an institution created to uphold the law. If the department’s leadership refuses to act, I hope President Obama pardons Rubashkin and ends this tragedy. The alternative is a display of either blind self-righteousness or frightened defensiveness that is inconsistent with the Justice Department we all have served and respected.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #282 on: December 21, 2017, 12:59:17 PM »
I'll post what an esteemed colleague of mine wrote to someone sharing your sentiments. Read it carefully: To the sadly misguided fellow Jew who just PM’d me to share his “profound disgust” at my sharing Facebook posts expressing “delight” in Shalom Mordechai Rubashkin’s wondrous release in the final (and most powerful) miraculous moments of Chanukah:

I am choosing to post a response publicly in the event that there are others thinking and feeling like you at this moment:

Nobody I know believes that “bank fraud is a Mitzvah,” and frankly your making blanket statements about “Hareidi Jews commonly justifying white collar crime by cloaking it in a Talit of frum-piety” is anti-Semitic (yes, a Jew who passes judgement on a wide swath of other Jews who might act or dress differently then them is also guilty of the same abhorrent form of racism).

To be sure, Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin is not a saint and has definitely made some serious mistakes along the way. He is not alone. We have all made mistakes in life. And yes, it’s also true that some people’s mistakes might be bigger than others.

Yet your gleeful willingness to brand him a nefarious convict, stands in sharp and shameful contrast to your self-identifying as “accepting and non-judgemental.”

To be so harshly critical of his errors, yet so accepting of others’ behaviour smacks of incredible (and may I add egregious) hypocrisy.

I wholeheartedly agree that none should be “above the law.” Defrauding financial institutions, cheating on income tax or illegally obtaining government funding is a crime. It is fair to say that those who break the law, deserve to be dealt with accordingly.

HOWEVER, a 27 year sentence for bank fraud cannot be justified. That was nothing less than a Dryfuseque display of horribly outrageous anti-Semitism in 21st century America.

The Frum community did not “broadcast tacit approval of criminality” it expressed a beautiful wave of solidarity with a Yid who was unjustly and harshly mistreated for the simple reason that he was (visibly) Jewish.

Quite frankly, to me it was painful (and in fact shocking) that the rest of Am Yisrael didn’t care and instead chose to conveniently look away for the past 8 long years...

The tsunami of joy that you are now seeing flood the web and social media is a remarkable outpouring of Torah-true solidarity and the sincere brotherhood and kinship that should always be felt amongst ALL Yidden.

You are presently witnessing the truest meaning of Ahavat Yisrael, as thousands delight and rejoice in the redemption of a fellow Yid who was unfairly treated just because he was Jewish.

Be inspired by it. Or at least wish you could feel it.

I am not ashamed to admit that I cried upon hearing the news. Not because Shalom Mordechai is my friend. I don’t really know him personally. But because, along with tens-of-thousands of others, I am privileged to feel a familial bond with a fellow Yid.

All I can say is that I wish you could feel it too...

If he was your terrestrial brother, you’d innately overlook his shortcomings and be happy for him tonight... that is the essential meaning of the Mitzvah of Ahavat Yisrael. Self-love blinds us to our own faults, love of our fellow should blind us to their faults as well!!

I pray that Hashem opens your heart and fills it with love... and may the beautiful Achdut Yisrael now sweeping the globe serve as the final catalyst for the arrival of our long awaited redemption through the righteous Moshiach, speedily and in our days, amen! Rabbi Mendel Kaplan
Wow!!!
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Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #283 on: December 21, 2017, 01:02:45 PM »
You are comparing career criminals to a first time white collar offender. Who close to you got a raw deal that you cant stand to see that this miracle happened? You sound like you have way too much at stake here.

Are you honestly saying Rubashkin was less of a career criminal than someone who got caught with an oz of pot a couple of times, and maybe tried to sell it? Convicted or not, Rubashkin was running an operation with scores of labor and immigration problems for years.

I have literally nothing at stake but to point out a hypocrisy that I'm seeing that anyone who's a goy and was sentenced to life in prison is a "career criminal" but if its a Yid then its antisemitism. At least people should acknowledge that there is widespread problem in the judicial system and Rubashkin is one of many victim. 


Online TimT

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #284 on: December 21, 2017, 01:04:56 PM »
He literally became a family member to all of Klal Yisroel, an uncle to all yiddishe kinderlach.