Author Topic: Rubashkin freed from prison.  (Read 81371 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #765 on: January 07, 2018, 04:31:38 PM »
Couldn't have stated it better. Put the whole story in one potent word!
I could use one (actually two) word but you wouldnít like it.
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Offline CS1

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #766 on: January 07, 2018, 04:54:33 PM »
They could just be hard nose prosecutors. My guess is from the little I read it has to do with the child labor charges the Feds dropped after this conviction.

they were trying to wreck the entire plant re-purchase from the beginning. They did not allow the buyers who offered $40 million to speak or get advice from the brother or father of SM Rubashkin. So that buyer pulled out and an $8 or $9 million buyer got the plant at a super low price. Then they based the $27 million loss on the buyout price. OBVIOUSLY if the $40 million buyer would have been allowed to buy it and consult once in a while with the father, then there would not be a $27 million debt.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #767 on: January 07, 2018, 05:14:51 PM »
My guess is from the little I read it has to do with the child labor charges the Feds dropped after this conviction.
You mean those 9,000 charges that they (state, not federal) initially brought, then took only the ~15 they thought they could make stick to trial and even those he was found not guilty?

It must be those, because everyone he thinks he should still be sitting in jail keeps referencing the child labor...

Offline whYME

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #768 on: January 07, 2018, 05:26:13 PM »
If you are going to make a claim someone is an anti-Semite you should have some facts to back it up. If you are going to condemn her then you need to condemn our entire legal system. All the way to the SC agreed with her.
I don't know how much of this story was really about anti-semitism, but yes, it's certainly quite condemning on our entire legal (or as it's more commonly called, "justice") system.

Oh and unless my memory is totally failing me here, SCOTUS didn't agree with her, they just didn't take up the case.

And you can't really blame the appeals court for not going against her. I mean after 2/3 of them sat together with her on other cases earlier that day you can't really expect them to go against her.

Offline thaber

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #769 on: January 07, 2018, 05:35:17 PM »
I don't think that conservative judges are a good thing for us. Social issues that have no real life ramifications aside, you end up with Linda Reade, a Bush appointee who sentences strictly with no consideration for the story.


Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #770 on: January 07, 2018, 05:37:44 PM »
You mean those 9,000 charges that they (state, not federal) initially brought, then took only the ~15 they thought they could make stick to trial and even those he was found not guilty?
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud. Please letís not pretend there was no child labor. If you want retry this make sure you use facts and not personal feelings.
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Offline thaber

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #771 on: January 07, 2018, 05:40:52 PM »
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud. Please letís not pretend there was no child labor. If you want retry this make sure you use facts and not personal feelings.
I don't believe there was intentional child labor. Remember, it's dangerous ground, and often illegal, to ask age or even legal status. Puts employers in a real bind, as many employers and small business owners here can attest to.
The way we find out a social is fake is only when the IRS alerts us months after the first filings, sometimes years.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #772 on: January 07, 2018, 05:52:20 PM »
I don't believe there was intentional child labor. Remember, it's dangerous ground, and often illegal, to ask age or even legal status. Puts employers in a real bind, as many employers and small business owners here can attest to.
The way we find out a social is fake is only when the IRS alerts us months after the first filings, sometimes years.
Glad you used the word intentional because we all know child labor was employed. I believe that has at the heart of the stiff sentencing.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #773 on: January 07, 2018, 05:54:12 PM »
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud.
Are you sure about there being child labor charges there? AFAICR that was the immigration charges.

Please letís not pretend there was no child labor.
1. The question is not if anyone underage was working there, but rather was it criminal in nature? i.e. did the management know and encourage it? Because when they tried to prove that part in court he was acquitted on all charges.

2. Am  I understanding you correctly? are you saying the sentence was justified because of the child labor allegations?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #774 on: January 07, 2018, 05:55:58 PM »
Are you sure about there being child labor charges there? AFAICR that was the immigration charges.
No I am not sure.
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #775 on: January 07, 2018, 05:58:01 PM »
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud. Please letís not pretend there was no child labor. If you want retry this make sure you use facts and not personal feelings.
1) They did not drop child labor charges. He was acquitted in state court. They dropped illegal immigration charges.

It's far from a given they dropped because they already had the sentence they wanted and would have nailed him on those, because a) those charges were there first. If it was such a given, they could have nailed him before the bank fraud even happened. B) Hiring illegals doesn't mean you did it on purpose - the illegals provide false papers to get hired. Not hiring because you suspect they are false is illegal in its own right. This happens even with companies that had e-verify in place. See the 2 part series This American Life did a couple of weeks ago on poultry plants in Alabama. He was the first and only such meat/poultry executive that was gone after like this.

2) You have brought up that this went "all the way to the SC," even thought you've been answered multiple times that because the Supreme Court doesn't take a case, doesn't mean it's because they agree. They only take cases they think have wider application not just for the individuals involved.

3) Lower appeals were lost not because they didn't prove prosecutorial or judicial misconduct, but because he would have been guilty regardless of those accusations. Which is true. He committed the fraud, no one argues that. (but see the link at the end to see why even this is ridiculous.)

Linda Reade has a history of cruel and vicious sentencing, beyond what prosecutors ask for and what guidelines suggest. So I don't know if she is an anti semite or just an awful human being, period.

As for the prosecution, there is more of a case for antisemitism. From the beginning of singling out his plant for the raid, right through denying him bail based on his religion (overturned by another judge) and meddling in the sale of his business to up his sentence.

This case stunk. There are loads of articles on the left and right side of the spectrum, from Jew and non-jew alike, decrying the prosecution and justice, with plenty calling it antisemitic.

Read this for more details
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/front-page/thirteen-outrages-in-the-rubashkin-prosecution/2018/01/03/

If even 3 of those 13 are true, it's an outrage. I venture you'd be unable to disprove a single one.

Now, what other excuse is there for such misconduct other than antisemitism?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #776 on: January 07, 2018, 05:59:30 PM »
2. Am  I understanding you correctly? are you saying the sentence was justified because of the child labor allegations
I never said the sentence was justified. I am just guessing what would cause such a stiff sentence.
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #777 on: January 07, 2018, 06:00:03 PM »


I believe that has at the heart of the stiff sentencing.

That. Is. Illegal.

You cannot sentence someone for bank fraud based on other unproven charges.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #778 on: January 07, 2018, 06:13:17 PM »

That. Is. Illegal.

You cannot sentence someone for bank fraud based on other unproven charges.
I agree and it is done all the time.
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Offline thaber

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #779 on: January 07, 2018, 06:18:47 PM »
Glad you used the word intentional because we all know child labor was employed. I believe that has at the heart of the stiff sentencing.

That. Is. Illegal.

You cannot sentence someone for bank fraud based on other unproven charges.
I agree and it is done all the time.
that's not an excuse, and is such, child labor should not be brought in to excuse Ms. Reade.