Author Topic: Rubashkin freed from prison.  (Read 98847 times)

Offline jj1000

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #820 on: February 01, 2018, 12:19:51 PM »
I'll agree to disagree.
Fair enough.
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Offline Boruch999

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #821 on: February 01, 2018, 12:29:34 PM »
Not so terrible.  I definitely wouldn't describe it as sick.  If it was Purim it would be considered Purim shtick.  Since it's not, it gives the impression that the guy who made it thinks that RSMR's personal geula is comparable to Chanuka and Purim which would be ridiculous. 

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #822 on: February 04, 2018, 10:23:30 AM »
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud. Please letís not pretend there was no child labor. If you want retry this make sure you use facts and not personal feelings.

The reason people keep mentioning the State child labor aquittal is because the defender showed that the company had proper safeguards to ensure workers were legal. If the govt. would have brought the immigration charges to trial the same arguments (which had been accepted by a jury) would have held.

There is a reason they brought the fraud charges to trial first.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #823 on: February 04, 2018, 11:46:59 AM »
The reason people keep mentioning the State child labor aquittal is because the defender showed that the company had proper safeguards to ensure workers were legal.
I am not up on the case as most here are. Didn't the company plead guilty to using child labor?
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Offline shapsam

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #824 on: February 04, 2018, 11:49:22 AM »
I am not up on the case as most here are. Didn't the company plead guilty to using child labor?
No.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #825 on: February 04, 2018, 12:00:38 PM »
No.
Amazed how so many have basic facts wrong.

However, Agriprocessors, as a corporation, which had already been purchased by Heshy Friedman, entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #826 on: February 04, 2018, 12:51:02 PM »
Amazed how so many have basic facts wrong.

However, Agriprocessors, as a corporation, which had already been purchased by Heshy Friedman, entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state.
I know this is not what you asked, but Rubashkin himself was tried and acquitted of the child labor charges that the state brought. I don't think there were any federal child labor charges, and the federal immigration charges were dropped. That leaves him with the federal bank fraud charges, which is what he was convicted of, and is the topic of most of the discussion here.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #827 on: February 04, 2018, 01:42:14 PM »
I know this is not what you asked, but Rubashkin himself was tried and acquitted of the child labor charges that the state brought. I don't think there were any federal child labor charges, and the federal immigration charges were dropped. That leaves him with the federal bank fraud charges, which is what he was convicted of, and is the topic of most of the discussion here.
Fair enough. Just so you know where I stand. When it comes to kids I cut no one any slack.
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #828 on: February 04, 2018, 07:02:27 PM »
Amazed how so many have basic facts wrong.

However, Agriprocessors, as a corporation, which had already been purchased by Heshy Friedman, entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state.
a guilty plea by a new owner who bought the company after SMR was already in prison. that tells us something about what happened? or something about what the state wanted the company to say to be let live?
Heshy friedman has a foggy clue about what violations did or didn't happen before he got there?

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #829 on: February 04, 2018, 07:07:59 PM »
Fair enough. Just so you know where I stand. When it comes to kids I cut no one any slack.
Go look into the industry. I even gave you a starting point upthread. When someone comes and says "I'm 18, hire me" and they have ID, you cannot not hire them because you *think* they are underage. As soon as they slip up and say their age, they get fired. There is nothing the companies can do about this. They all have this issue (hundreds of companies, many far larger than agri, and employing far more underage employees), who else was raided and arrested for it?
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Offline whYME

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #830 on: February 04, 2018, 08:59:23 PM »
Amazed how so many have basic facts wrong.

However, Agriprocessors, as a corporation, which had already been purchased by Heshy Friedman, entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state.
Not knowing that happened with the company under the new owners =/= having basic facts about the case pertaining to SMR wrong.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #831 on: February 04, 2018, 09:03:58 PM »
Not knowing that happened with the company under the new owners =/= having basic facts about the case pertaining to SMR wrong.
Please check when these violations occurred that they pleaded guilty to. My beef is using child labor. No slack from me on that. It could be the Pope and I wouldn't care.
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #832 on: February 04, 2018, 09:05:55 PM »
Please check when these violations occurred that they pleaded guilty to. My beef is using child labor. No slack from me on that. It could be the Pope and I wouldn't care.
how can the new owner plead for what happened before he showed up? and what does he know?

as if his plea proves anything about what actually happened...

(Imagine DJT 'admitting' on behalf of BHO to illegal wiretapping)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #833 on: February 04, 2018, 09:13:47 PM »
how can the new owner plead for what happened before he showed up? and what does he know?

as if his plea proves anything about what actually happened...

(Imagine DJT 'admitting' on behalf of BHO to illegal wiretapping)
There were children working there. That is fact. They testified at his trial. The prosecution did not prove that he knew about it. No one disputed there was children working there.
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #834 on: February 04, 2018, 09:14:35 PM »
There were children working there. That is fact. They testified at his trial. The prosecution did not prove that he knew about it. No one disputed there was children working there.
so say that, instead of quoting  a guilty plea by a 3rd party

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #835 on: February 04, 2018, 09:17:01 PM »
so say that, instead of quoting  a guilty plea by a 3rd party
That was just to show children were working there and the company pleaded guilty to it.
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #836 on: February 04, 2018, 09:18:07 PM »
That was just to show children were working there.
so that plea tells us what?

Offline whYME

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #837 on: February 04, 2018, 09:20:07 PM »
Please check when these violations occurred that they pleaded guilty to. My beef is using child labor. No slack from me on that. It could be the Pope and I wouldn't care.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that missed these two posts and you weren't intentionally ignoring them
Go look into the industry. I even gave you a starting point upthread. When someone comes and says "I'm 18, hire me" and they have ID, you cannot not hire them because you *think* they are underage. As soon as they slip up and say their age, they get fired. There is nothing the companies can do about this. They all have this issue (hundreds of companies, many far larger than agri, and employing far more underage employees), who else was raided and arrested for it?
link=topic=88429.msg1886044#msg1886044 date=1517788947]
a guilty plea by a new owner who bought the company after SMR was already in prison. that tells us something about what happened? or something about what the state wanted the company to say to be let live?
Heshy friedman has a foggy clue about what violations did or didn't happen before he got there?
[/quote]

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #838 on: February 04, 2018, 09:23:33 PM »
so that plea tells us what?
If you want I can do a simple google search for the answer to this question. Did these things (child labor violations) that the guilty plea was for happen under the old owner or the new owner?

"entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state."
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #839 on: February 04, 2018, 09:25:53 PM »
If you want I can do a simple google search for the answer to this question. Did these things (child labor violations) that the guilty plea was for happen under the old owner or the new owner?

"entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state."
I repeat, if new owner (DJT) 'pleads' claims about what happened during his predecessor's (BHO) tenure, does the latter have any clue what actually took place befor he showed up? does his claim have any bearing on what actually happened? on 'facts'? or is it a simple legalese technicality?