Author Topic: Rubashkin freed from prison.  (Read 99070 times)

Offline username

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #920 on: February 05, 2018, 09:49:44 AM »
^^^^
This was intended as a PM to CM, but I sent it to the wrong guy. So I'm posting it here.
^^^

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #921 on: February 05, 2018, 09:54:04 AM »
^^^^
This was intended as a PM to CM, but I sent it to the wrong guy. So I'm posting it here.
:)
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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #922 on: February 05, 2018, 11:37:17 AM »
I was there. There was nobody that i saw that looked like a kid. were there 17 year olds that had fake ID cause they wanted a job? Maybe. But there were definitely no school kids running around there. I would give the pope a pass on this. Compounding the issue, was that most of the work force were foreign born, not your typical american. As such, it is more difficult (for me)to properly assess their ages.


Mais non!

If believing child labor should not be used is "progressive" then I am proud of it.That makes me feel warm and cozy inside knowing that never happens.  ::)

You don't like our laws? I am sure you can find the door.

If standing up for the rights of children is imposing my values on everyone else then I do it proudly.

I feel like you are lecturing me. What's the next lecture going to be on, women? I am sure you are an expert on how they should be treated.

So regardless of desperate these 17 year olds are desperate and willing to work, to the extent that they will obtain false documentation so that people like CM can't stop them from doing what they (and many other reasonable people) believe might be best for them, CM will proudly impose his opinions and values.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #923 on: February 05, 2018, 11:47:14 AM »
I was there. There was nobody that i saw that looked like a kid. were there 17 year olds that had fake ID cause they wanted a job? Maybe. But there were definitely no school kids running around there. I would give the pope a pass on this. Compounding the issue, was that most of the work force were foreign born, not your typical american. As such, it is more difficult (for me)to properly assess their ages.

I thought 16 was the minimum age to work?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #924 on: February 05, 2018, 11:49:48 AM »
So regardless of desperate these 17 year olds are desperate and willing to work, to the extent that they will obtain false documentation so that people like CM can't stop them from doing what they (and many other reasonable people) believe might be best for them, CM will proudly impose his opinions and values.
So now your claim is they were all 17 year olds? Do you care at all about facts?
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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #925 on: February 05, 2018, 11:57:21 AM »
So now your claim is they were all 17 year olds? Do you care at all about facts?
I did not claim they were all 17 year olds.

But go ahead and stick to the details and facts, while ignoring the reality of the situation.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 12:02:34 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #926 on: February 05, 2018, 11:58:53 AM »
I thought 16 was the minimum age to work?
A slaughterhouse might be different for good reason.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #927 on: February 05, 2018, 12:00:44 PM »
I did not claim they were all 17 year olds.

But go ahead and stick to the details and facts, while ignoring the reality of the situation.
I believe in child labor laws. That is the reality of the situation. Not sure what your issue is.
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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #928 on: February 05, 2018, 12:05:38 PM »
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #929 on: February 05, 2018, 12:05:51 PM »
I believe in child labor laws. That is the reality of the situation. Not sure what your issue is.

While the law might not agree, if a 16 or 17 year old wants to lie and deceive their way to employment then the onus is on them.
They're not babies.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #930 on: February 05, 2018, 12:11:32 PM »
While the law might not agree, if a 16 or 17 year old wants to lie and deceive their way to employment then the onus is on them.
They're not babies.
Then we get in the argument what about 14 or 15? How about 12 or 13?
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #931 on: February 05, 2018, 12:17:29 PM »
I believe in child labor laws. That is the reality of the situation. Not sure what your issue is.
Welcome to modern political discourse. People cant have a nuanced discussion because you framed it as being pro or against child labor laws. Now anyone arguing with you is on the side of being pro child labor! What monsters!
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #932 on: February 05, 2018, 12:19:24 PM »
Welcome to modern political discourse. People cant have a nuanced discussion because you framed it as being pro or against child labor laws. Now anyone arguing with you is on the side of being pro child labor! What monsters!

Thank you for diligently keeping to your job, as clearly enumerated in your signature line.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #933 on: February 05, 2018, 12:22:23 PM »
Welcome to modern political discourse. People cant have a nuanced discussion because you framed it as being pro or against child labor laws. Now anyone arguing with you is on the side of being pro child labor! What monsters!
Not at all. This all started because I correct a member that the company pleaded guilty to child labor. It snowballed from there.
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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #934 on: February 05, 2018, 12:25:34 PM »
Then we get in the argument what about 14 or 15? How about 12 or 13?

I am with you on this one. The issue is that if we also prevent the employers from being able to enforce the age restrictions then the employers cannot be held culpable. We therefore need the regulations preventing their enforcement to be repealed.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #935 on: February 05, 2018, 01:59:49 PM »
Not at all. This all started because I correct a member that the company pleaded guilty to child labor. It snowballed from there.
I wonder if the snowballing you mention had anything to do your refusal to acknowledge that the guilty plea came from the new owners and your seeming insistence that having had underage workers was necessarily an evil act committed by SMR regardless of his being found not guilty on the matter and regardless of the inability of the company to do anything if someone comes with ID showing that they're old enough.

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #936 on: February 05, 2018, 02:25:09 PM »
I am with you on this one. The issue is that if we also prevent the employers from being able to enforce the age restrictions then the employers cannot be held culpable. We therefore need the regulations preventing their enforcement to be repealed.
the government plays both sides you cant hire them but you can either ask them for proof that the paperwork is real. basically ur sscrewed the question just is how bad!
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #937 on: February 05, 2018, 02:50:43 PM »
I wonder if the snowballing you mention had anything to do your refusal to acknowledge that the guilty plea came from the new owners and your seeming insistence that having had underage workers was necessarily an evil act committed by SMR regardless of his being found not guilty on the matter and regardless of the inability of the company to do anything if someone comes with ID showing that they're old enough.
Show me one post where I said the guilty plea wasn't from the new owners. What I didn't know is if the other guilty plea was from a new HRM. All indications point this was not a new HRM. The only reason I brought this up was to show child labor was used. I said it before and I will say it again. When it comes to child labor I cut no one any slack. You don't agree and that is fine.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #938 on: February 05, 2018, 03:03:49 PM »
I said it before and I will say it again. When it comes to child labor I cut no one any slack. You don't agree and that is fine.
and your seeming insistence that having had underage workers was necessarily an evil act committed by SMR regardless of his being found not guilty on the matter and regardless of the inability of the company to do anything if someone comes with ID showing that they're old enough.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
« Reply #939 on: April 11, 2018, 07:00:46 PM »
Did we ever get an answer to why the Rubashkin's refer to prison as "a place called prison"?
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch