Women in Jewish magazines

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Do you ?

Doesn't matter.

[sky121]

Back in the day things weren't like this.  Plenty of Jewish newspapers and magazines had pictures of men and women and I think it was perfectly fine.

I honestly think this is a situation where we are kidding ourselves into thinking it's better and more machmir to have a little girl be blotted out than realizing that this is a form of extremism that has little to do with yiddeshkeit at this point. 

[ExGingi]

Back in the day things weren't like this.  Plenty of Jewish newspapers and magazines had pictures of men and women and I think it was perfectly fine.

I honestly think this is a situation where we are kidding ourselves into thinking it's better and more machmir to have a little girl be blotted out than realizing that this is a form of extremism that has little to do with yiddeshkeit at this point. 

It's not so much about being machmir. But unfortunately we are in a situation of אכשר דרא - בתמיהה, were sensitivities that were once well ingrained, need to be explained, and are lost to lines and standards.

As my dear friend @aygart accurately stated:

Much of tznius is subjective. Anyone who thinks it is a bunch of lines missed the boat.

Some of the more chassidish it is ideological. That has at this point spilled over into other communities as well. I think some is not having the backbone or the interest in standing up to those who go overboard but some is also to avoid what would become constant haggling over standards.

[sky121]

It's not so much about being machmir. But unfortunately we are in a situation of אכשר דרא - בתמיהה, were sensitivities that were once well ingrained, need to be explained, and are lost to lines and standards.

As my dear friend @aygart accurately stated:

Those aren't good excuses. You can't pull all the way to one side to avoid having discussion and differences in the middle.
  And half the issue is people actually believing these standards are 'correct' and anything different is 'wrong'. 

If most people adhereing to these standards were at least honest that they're doing them to avoid debating over specifics we'd already be a lot better off.

[TimT]

Back in the day things weren't like this. 

Back in which day ? As far back as I can remember the papers which didn’t have it then still don’t have it and the ones which did still have it.

[yelped]

Back in which day ? As far back as I can remember the papers which didn’t have it then still don’t have it and the ones which did still have it.

The official Agudah paper had pictures in the 50s, as well as many others.

[sky121]

Back in which day ? As far back as I can remember the papers which didn’t have it then still don’t have it and the ones which did still have it.

I honestly don't know names. I'm sure some never did. And I know some still do. But in general things were a lot more middle of the road and 'normal'. Even when I look through old papers and magazines in my grandparents basement all I notice is how normal it seemed to show both sexes of modern and more to the right people in various settings where you rarely see those pictures today. 

[TimT]

I honestly don't know names. I'm sure some never did. And I know some still do. But in general things were a lot more middle of the road and 'normal'. Even when I look through old papers and magazines in my grandparents basement all I notice is how normal it seemed to show both sexes of modern and more to the right people in various settings where you rarely see those pictures today.

I know exactly which time you’re referring to & I wouldn’t call that time “Middle of the road”. Was after the war & yiddishkeit here was at a very low point. I’ve also seen the old pictures. Women went sleeveless, uncovered hair, mixed dancing at simchas, and on & on. If you like that style better that’s your choice but that’s not “normal, middle of the road”.

[a mirrer]

Back in the day things weren't like this.  Plenty of Jewish newspapers and magazines had pictures of men and women and I think it was perfectly fine.

I honestly think this is a situation where we are kidding ourselves into thinking it's better and more machmir to have a little girl be blotted out than realizing that this is a form of extremism that has little to do with yiddeshkeit at this point.

back in the day the NCSY had social dancing, so don't bring points from what was acceptable in the US 60 years ago when the religious community was a lot more modern than it is today because if ״back in the day״ is fair play then show me one chareidi periodical from Poland before WW1 that had pictures of women in it

[sky121]

I know exactly which time you’re referring to & I wouldn’t call that time “Middle of the road”. Was after the war & yiddishkeit here was at a very low point. I’ve also seen the old pictures. Women went sleeveless, uncovered hair, mixed dancing at simchas, and on & on. If you like that style better that’s your choice but that’s not “normal, middle of the road”.

Most of the things I've seen were from the 60's and 70's.  No one was sleeveless, they didn't have mixed dancing, their hair was covered.

Just saying.  And yes as a whole our communities have gotten "stricter" about a lot of things.


I guess the question is how do you decide when to stop going that way?

[sky121]

back in the day the NCSY had social dancing, so don't bring points from what was acceptable in the US 60 years ago when the religious community was a lot more modern than it is today because if ״back in the day״ is fair play then show me one chareidi periodical from Poland before WW1 that had pictures of women in it

NCSY still has things today that someone like you seemingly wouldn't agree with. I don't know what that has to do with anything.   But fine, let's not use the back in the day points. Because back in the day women also stayed at home and raised their kids and men were out working so they could afford to live and those times have also changed.

[Dan]

I guess the question is how do you decide when to stop going that way?

When our wives all have bald heads and burkas

[TimT]

Most of the things I've seen were from the 60's and 70's.  No one was sleeveless, they didn't have mixed dancing, their hair was covered.

Just saying.  And yes as a whole our communities have gotten "stricter" about a lot of things.


I guess the question is how do you decide when to stop going that way?

The papers showing women in the 70’s still show them today

[sky121]

I recently had this sort of  discussion with some Chassidish relatives of mine in Israel.  They were discussing about sending one of the kids to Gan next year (she's 2 at the moment) and which to send her to and they said well if you go with X at least she won't have to wear tights yet.


This led to a whole discussion of how 3 year old chassidish girls are required to wear tights and 15-20 years ago (so we're not talking the 60s here-but like 1999)  where it was still totally accepted to wear little socks and even short sleeves. And this was in the most religious parts of Bnei Brak.

These little things that "we let" change... these things we think that are "not really a big deal" end up really causing problems. And more division and aren't making us any frummer or helping our yiddeshkeit grow IMHO.

Slowly lettings these type of things change that one doesn't necessarily believe need changing is slightly dangerous IMO.

Obviously there are plenty of people reading this who think no girl SHOULD walking around in anything but tights and no women should ever be seen in a magazine because that is 'better', frummer? and those people clearly just disagree outright anyways with any of these type of thoughts.

My opinions aren't for them.

It's for those in the middle.  Like we mentioned above. Who let these things go or be because it's easier not to fight or discuss.

[TimT]

We can discuss anything & everything (in fact we do), but most, if not all, of these magazines have rabbonim guiding them.