Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?

[EliJelly]

Driving in Williamsburg this past Sunday brought this thread to mind. צדקה עשה הקב"ה עם ישראל that certain communities don't let women drive. If women would be driving all over Williamsburg the place would turn into one huge traffic jam.

Can it be worse??

Is traffic in Willi not as bad as CH or Flatbush?

Likely much worse

[ya]

Wow...imagine a human being might want to spontaneously just go out...that does sound dangerous to the kehilla! 

And Dan is so correct, as a woman, it’s way less tznius to be riding in cars with strange men all the time.  Even if it’s not halachicaly Yichud, I often feel uncomfortable in Uber’s and taxis alone.  People can justify and give apologetics all day long but ultimately it’s about control and fear and everyone knows it (both those on the inside and outside).  As Jews, exerting self-control and following halachic standards is who we are but let’s be honest about what this rule does to exert control within communities. I want to make my home my heart and joy where I focus my energies but that is different than being limited from leaving it when I want or need to.

have you been to Monsey? It's full of taxis. Woman go from taxi to taxi all day.

[EliJelly]

Pedestrians in Williamsburg are a different breed and a big part of the traffic chaos.

Williamsburg has all the traffic ingredients to create a mess. Very few 2-way streets, narrow streets, no alternate avenues to avoid clogged streets - you're stuck between Kent and Broadway, and of course the BQE running across creating all these triangle blocks running against each other.

See this crazy route right here for instance, to get "around the corner" (should you need to drop off something via car) easily takes 15 minutes during afternoon school bus traffic time. This is just one example.

[ExGingi]

Williamsburg has all the traffic ingredients to create a mess. Very few 2-way streets, narrow streets, no alternate avenues to avoid clogged streets - you're stuck between Kent and Broadway, and of course the BQE running across creating all these triangle blocks running against each other.

See this crazy route right here for instance, to get "around the corner" (should you need to drop off something via car) easily takes 15 minutes during afternoon school bus traffic time. This is just one example.

While I agree that Williamsburg has major ingredients for a traffic mess, one way streets are a good thing rather than a problem.

As for the pedestrians, I don't think they are worse than CH, but IMHO the sheer volume of women and children pedestrians is much greater across many more blocks (presumably in CH the women are driving, and the population might not be as dense).

[Dan]

Williamsburg has all the traffic ingredients to create a mess. Very few 2-way streets, narrow streets, no alternate avenues to avoid clogged streets - you're stuck between Kent and Broadway, and of course the BQE running across creating all these triangle blocks running against each other.

See this crazy route right here for instance, to get "around the corner" (should you need to drop off something via car) easily takes 15 minutes during afternoon school bus traffic time. This is just one example.

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=21675

[imayid2]

Fun thread!
New theory: The בעל עגלה was very much a male job, everyone can understand that. So “driving” was traditionally something that woman did not do. When cars started being a thing, they were naturally viewed in the same light. Now indisputably driving nowadays is different than the בעל העגלה, but many chassidim hold on tight to traditional ways, and perceive it as a activity unbecoming of woman. Similar to keeping the levush the way it was, a woman shouldn’t drive, she was never the בעל העגלה.

[Definitions]

Fun thread!
New theory: The בעל עגלה was very much a male job, everyone can understand that. So “driving” was traditionally something that woman did not do. When cars started being a thing, they were naturally viewed in the same light. Now indisputably driving nowadays is different than the בעל העגלה, but many chassidim hold on tight to traditional ways, and perceive it as a activity unbecoming of woman. Similar to keeping the levush the way it was, a woman shouldn’t drive, she was never the בעל העגלה.

I find it hard to believe that the reason would be "many chassidim hold on tight to traditional ways, and perceive it as a activity unbecoming of woman".

What other traditional things are held on very tightly for no reason?

[joe1234]

Fun thread!
New theory: The בעל עגלה was very much a male job, everyone can understand that. So “driving” was traditionally something that woman did not do. When cars started being a thing, they were naturally viewed in the same light. Now indisputably driving nowadays is different than the בעל העגלה, but many chassidim hold on tight to traditional ways, and perceive it as a activity unbecoming of woman. Similar to keeping the levush the way it was, a woman shouldn’t drive, she was never the בעל העגלה.

nah they just want safer roads and blame it on this.

[imayid2]

I find it hard to believe that the reason would be "many chassidim hold on tight to traditional ways, and perceive it as a activity unbecoming of woman".

What other traditional things are held on very tightly for no reason?

There are shreds of truth to some of the reasons brought up. So even if they would never of done this had the perception of who a driver was supposed to be hadn’t been firmly in place, nevertheless they are enough to keep the role the way it was.

[CountValentine]

What other traditional things are held on very tightly for no reason?

Walk on the other side of the street?

[Definitions]

Walk on the other side of the street?

Not sure what you're referring to but either way that sounds like the reason still applies

[Definitions]

People can justify and give apologetics all day long but ultimately it’s about control and fear and everyone knows it (both those on the inside and outside).  As Jews, exerting self-control and following halachic standards is who we are but let’s be honest about what this rule does to exert control within communities.

I don't know this to be true at all. This makes it sound like there's a cult with a central figure(s) that is seeking to manipulate countless people for their own benefit. Who is this central figure here? And why do they benefit when the females are at home more?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

[koplonko]

Fun thread!
New theory: The בעל עגלה was very much a male job, everyone can understand that. So “driving” was traditionally something that woman did not do. When cars started being a thing, they were naturally viewed in the same light. Now indisputably driving nowadays is different than the בעל העגלה, but many chassidim hold on tight to traditional ways, and perceive it as a activity unbecoming of woman. Similar to keeping the levush the way it was, a woman shouldn’t drive, she was never the בעל העגלה.

Simple solution: make women the בעלת עגלה

[imayid2]

Simple solution: make women the בעלת עגלה

Simple solution to the striemel costs: no more striemels.

[Dan]

Simple solution to the striemel costs: no more striemels.

That's what the Rebbe did...

[EliJelly]

That's what the Alter Rebbe did...

FTFY

[imayid2]

Same to assume these guys don’t let their wives drive
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/2133972/loons-radical-hardliners-attack-nshei-womens-event-in-yerushalayim-see-video.html

[Dan]

FTFY

Sir?

[EliJelly]

Sir?

A shtraimel was never a thing in Lubavitch. The rebbeim wore Kolpicks but was that a shabbos malbush?

[Dan]

A shtraimel was never a thing in Lubavitch.

Uh...