Poll

Is your wife allowed to drive? (Females: Are you allowed to drive?)

Yes
130 (75.1%)
No
43 (24.9%)

Total Members Voted: 173

Author Topic: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?  (Read 121764 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #300 on: January 07, 2018, 07:59:52 AM »
who appoints the people who run the חסידות to give them the right to throw people out?
(I wasn’t thrown out of the חסידות just my shteeble)
I'm sure the shteeble was following guidance from the grand rabbi. No?

Offline a mirrer

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #301 on: January 07, 2018, 08:29:31 AM »
I'm sure the shteeble was following guidance from the grand rabbi. No?
if it was him then maybe you have a tayna, but sine he has no idea what is going on because he is surrounded by a group of corrupt and power-hungry individuals who feed him hogwash then my question still stands.

Online aygart

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #302 on: January 07, 2018, 09:23:47 AM »

« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 09:30:59 AM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #303 on: January 07, 2018, 09:42:50 AM »
if it was him then maybe you have a tayna, but sine he has no idea what is going on because he is surrounded by a group of corrupt and power-hungry individuals who feed him hogwash then my question still stands.
If you don't believe in your chassidus, get out and find something else that can give you a sense of spirituality or belonging.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #304 on: January 07, 2018, 10:01:51 AM »
If you don't believe in your chassidus, get out and find something else that can give you a sense of spirituality or belonging.
Easy peezee...

Sheesh, no clue what that involves obviously.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #305 on: January 07, 2018, 10:21:15 AM »
If you don't believe in your chassidus, get out and find something else that can give you a sense of spirituality or belonging.
When leaving causes you to lose out on friends, and family as well as being looked down upon it's not really an easy option.

It's a choice, but not really. 
"Not all who wander are lost"

Online aygart

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #306 on: January 07, 2018, 10:21:20 AM »
Easy peezee...

Sheesh, no clue what that involves obviously.
But for this statement you had no issue?
Why do some people here care so much if other communities have their תקנות that you don't like, in most of this Chasidis you are not forced to do anything, but if you want to stay in that Chasidis you have to obey their rules.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #307 on: January 07, 2018, 10:35:29 AM »
But for this statement you had no issue?
I don't really understand what you're asking.

My issue is with cookie cutter Judaism. Not everyone fits in the same box people want to be associated with groups such as a chasidus and not be fully constrained by every nuance and every whim of some person in charge. If every edict came down from the rebbe I would have no issue with it. But that is never the case.

In Ger its the commandants.  In Satmar and in Lakewood its a Vaad. These are people in power who set the rules for the most part at their whim with general guidelines such as והיה מחנך קדוש as their biblical or rabbinic backstop.

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Offline a mirrer

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #308 on: January 07, 2018, 10:37:42 AM »
If you don't believe in your chassidus, get out and find something else that can give you a sense of spirituality or belonging.
i believe in the chassidus I have my mashpia in the chassidus that I go to for hadracha ,and try to ignore the corruption at the top
I don't really understand what you're asking.

My issue is with cookie cutter Judaism. Not everyone fits in the same box people want to be associated with groups such as a chasidus and not be fully constrained by every nuance and every whim of some person in charge. If every edict came down from the rebbe I would have no issue with it. But that is never the case.

In Ger its the commandants.  In Satmar and in Lakewood its a Vaad. These are people in power who set the rules for the most part at their whim with general guidelines such as והיה מחנך קדוש as their biblical or rabbinic backstop.


+1

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #309 on: January 07, 2018, 10:40:34 AM »
I don't really understand what you're asking.

My issue is with cookie cutter Judaism. Not everyone fits in the same box people want to be associated with groups such as a chasidus and not be fully constrained by every nuance and every whim of some person in charge. If every edict came down from the rebbe I would have no issue with it. But that is never the case.

In Ger its the commandants.  In Satmar and in Lakewood its a Vaad. These are people in power who set the rules for the most part at their whim with general guidelines such as והיה מחנך קדוש as their biblical or rabbinic backstop.
Actually Lakewood is a total free for all. You can litteraly do what ever you want. Everything goes. I highly recommend it for people who are looking for that. In fact disenfranchised chassidim are moving here in droves.

Offline sky121

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #310 on: January 07, 2018, 10:52:53 AM »
Actually Lakewood is a total free for all. You can litteraly do what ever you want. Everything goes. I highly recommend it for people who are looking for that. In fact disenfranchised chassidim are moving here in droves.


For the amount of trouble my Lakewood friends have with getting their kids into schools because of the color shirts they wear and the length of the wives shaitels it doesn't sound like a free for all to me.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #311 on: January 07, 2018, 10:59:41 AM »

For the amount of trouble my Lakewood friends have with getting their kids into schools because of the color shirts they wear and the length of the wives shaitels it doesn't sound like a free for all to me.
Was exactly what i was going to say. Wait until you need to get a girl into high school and see how free for all it is.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #312 on: January 07, 2018, 11:08:12 AM »

For the amount of trouble my Lakewood friends have with getting their kids into schools because of the color shirts they wear and the length of the wives shaitels it doesn't sound like a free for all to me.
Meh. They all get in eventually. Most are just picky.

(Anyway, not getting into a privately owned school doesn't mean you can't do what you want and it's not a free for all. Noone is stopping you. People who care about neighborhood pressure have moved to totally non Jewish areas where the neighbors are very non judgmental...)

Offline sky121

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #313 on: January 07, 2018, 11:10:01 AM »
Meh. They all get in eventually. Most are just picky.

(Anyway, not getting into a privately owned school doesn't mean you can't do what you want and it's not a free for all. Noone is stopping you. People who care about neighborhood pressure have moved to totally non Jewish areas where the neighbors are very non judgmental...)
Listen, in theory every is free to do what they want. But I'm being realistic here. And coming from someone like you (at least from what I've gathered from your posts) I'm surprised to hear you speaking this way.

They are many things set up and in place that make it that we can't effectively do 'what we want' and be accepted.
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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #314 on: January 07, 2018, 11:26:01 AM »
I don't really understand what you're asking.

My issue is with cookie cutter Judaism. Not everyone fits in the same box people want to be associated with groups such as a chasidus and not be fully constrained by every nuance and every whim of some person in charge. If every edict came down from the rebbe I would have no issue with it. But that is never the case.

In Ger its the commandants.  In Satmar and in Lakewood its a Vaad. These are people in power who set the rules for the most part at their whim with general guidelines such as והיה מחנך קדוש as their biblical or rabbinic backstop.
Isn't the essence of a chassidus to follow those at the top? Aren't there people "in power" there at the him of the rebbe?

It is somewhat of an oxy moron to want to be a part of Satmar but to be unwilling to follow the community. I understood you to be saying that it is not so easy to leave and hence my comment. There are plenty of places one can move to if they do not wish to conform to the community they are in. Many have moved from KJ to Monsey for exactly that reason.
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Online aygart

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #315 on: January 07, 2018, 11:30:29 AM »

For the amount of trouble my Lakewood friends have with getting their kids into schools because of the color shirts they wear and the length of the wives shaitels it doesn't sound like a free for all to me.
Was exactly what i was going to say. Wait until you need to get a girl into high school and see how free for all it is.
Listen, in theory every is free to do what they want. But I'm being realistic here. And coming from someone like you (at least from what I've gathered from your posts) I'm surprised to hear you speaking this way.

They are many things set up and in place that make it that we can't effectively do 'what we want' and be accepted.

There are schools which will accept these kids, but they do not want to send there. The biggest issue is when people do not want to conform with Satmar yet want to be accepted as Satmar. They want to send their kids to the "yeshivishe" school yet do not want to beyeshivish. They will be accepted as what they are. Don't wear a mini skirt and expect to be accepted as a rebbetzin. In Lakewood there is where to go for someone who deos not wish to be a part of the yeshivishe community and many are there. In other places that may be more difficult.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online mgarfin

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #316 on: January 07, 2018, 11:35:31 AM »

For the amount of trouble my Lakewood friends have with getting their kids into schools because of the color shirts they wear and the length of the wives shaitels it doesn't sound like a free for all to me.

In trying to get this thread completely off topic


From your description, it sounds like they don't belong in the school there trying to get in.

There is definitely a school in Lakewood that caters to the colored shirt and very long shatiels type of family. for the remote possibility that someone who where's colored shirts and still belongs in the school he's applying too, he shouldn't have such a hard time changing his dress. if he's having a hard time he probably doesn't belong there.


Offline sky121

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #317 on: January 07, 2018, 11:43:31 AM »
In trying to get this thread completely off topic


From your description, it sounds like they don't belong in the school there trying to get in.

There is definitely a school in Lakewood that caters to the colored shirt and very long shatiels type of family. for the remote possibility that someone who where's colored shirts and still belongs in the school he's applying too, he shouldn't have such a hard time changing his dress. if he's having a hard time he probably doesn't belong there.
Why does a shaitel that's a little longer and the fact that a guy wears colored shirts have to automatically make you into a 'certain kind of family'.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #318 on: January 07, 2018, 11:44:38 AM »
Isn't the essence of a chassidus to follow those at the top? Aren't there people "in power" there at the him of the rebbe?

It is somewhat of an oxy moron to want to be a part of Satmar but to be unwilling to follow the community. I understood you to be saying that it is not so easy to leave and hence my comment. There are plenty of places one can move to if they do not wish to conform to the community they are in. Many have moved from KJ to Monsey for exactly that reason.
I will tell you my experience. The guy that sent me to jail was a "Rosh Hakahal" in one of the Satmar Batei Midrashim. He's supposedly in the upper echelon of power in the chassidus. The Rebbe didnt know what he was doing and when the Rebbe found out he was none too happy. So Not everything that is said or done by the people "in power" is sanctioned, or the "Word of G-d".

I can tell you what I hear from my neighbors and tenant who are Ger. The Rebbe supposedly sent word that he was unhappy with the Ger community in NY. He supposedly said that the current yeshiva, Yagdil Torah, was not up to snuff. He supposedly said that the American chasidim had lost their way and were causing all sort of pritzus geder to occur including in the mode of dress of women. I say supposedly because its all machorei hapargud...no one really heard him say this. Those that have his ear say he said this.

They opened a new yeshiva for the children of lets call them "perushim". Most of the kids that go to that yeshiva are children of Israeli Ger chasidim. The Americans left their kids in Yagdil Torah. The interesting part is...that the pritzus gedarim, that was supposedly the direct reasoning in splitting the community, was introduced by...you guessed it...the Israelis themselves. Maybe not the men, but the women definitely.

So The Rebbe is hoodwinked into making proclamations and demands of a community by the ones "in power". If you ask me as a disinterested outsider, this was plain and simple a money grab by someone who was disenfrachised in Yagdil Torah. The American Gerrer chasidim resent the Israelis now for wreaking havoc on the schools. The Schools invested huge amounts of money in infrastructure over the last few years to be able to accommodate growth and then in one fell swoop the Rebbe...i.e. those in power in Israel, with no real understanding of the facts on the ground, send the whole chasidus in America into chaos.

 
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Why do some Jewish communities prohibit women from driving?
« Reply #319 on: January 07, 2018, 11:45:02 AM »
Listen, in theory every is free to do what they want. But I'm being realistic here. And coming from someone like you (at least from what I've gathered from your posts) I'm surprised to hear you speaking this way.

They are many things set up and in place that make it that we can't effectively do 'what we want' and be accepted.
I'm not condoning anything. Just stating the facts on the ground. - within lakwood and it's environs, everyone within the broad spectrum of charaidy is comfortable and accepted. From the extreme yeshivish right wing, extreme chassidishe to the left wing Jean wearing spandex bike wearing nussach Ari daveners etc.