Poll

Are you frum and do you daven daily?

I'm frum and I (mostly) daven with a minyan 3x a day
93 (61.2%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven without a minyan 3x a day
18 (11.8%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven daily
22 (14.5%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) don't daven every day
13 (8.6%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) daven daily
2 (1.3%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) don't daven daily
4 (2.6%)

Total Members Voted: 152

Author Topic: Do you Daven?  (Read 26880 times)

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1319
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2018, 08:19:26 PM »
Rí Shais Taub has covered this on more than 1 occasion. He was very clear that the woman should not be his mashgiach. (Unfortunately I didnít save that issue)
A. shias taub who?
b. there is a far cry between being your spouse's mashgiach which would be counterproductive and saying that your spouse's yiddeshkeit isn't your problem unless it effects your kids
c. the fact that line can be said with out any sort of protest and a lot of what else is being said in this thread is so so sad. we have created a different sect. a cultural Judaism not much different then reform Judaism just with emphasis on different things that are or aren't important.

Online cholent

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 2261
  • Total likes: 257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2018, 08:19:46 PM »
What paragraph are you disputing? The first is pretty indisputably true; we can argue about extant and effects.
Pretty much all of it. What makes the first paragraph indisputably true? Your empirical observations? My empirical observations in my own community and family are equally valid
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 744
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2018, 08:21:31 PM »
How do you know he doesnít daven privately ? Has he ever made disparaging remarks about davening ?

He's never made any disparaging remarks about davening.

When we talk about it he admits that he's wrong.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 08:27:48 PM by wayfe »
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
ó Richard Feynman

Offline iAm

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 136
  • Total likes: 37
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2018, 08:22:57 PM »
Wondering if yiddiskeit is at all discussed prior to marriage with chassidik dating? In the yeshiva/litvish world it is one of the primary issues the couple works out prior to marriage - to make sure they are on same page...

While it is discussed in the baalabatush world (I think that may be a better term), my experience has been that there's such a disconnect on the davening thing, that it's not broached. It doesnt register on the girls radars at all. The discussions are way more on how to "jointly create a future" (tv at home, what type of schools, what type of camps, etc)
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Online TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 19874
  • Total likes: 3169
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2018, 08:25:29 PM »
He's never make an disparaging remarks about davening.

When we talk about it he admits that he's wrong.
Thats very important. He could very possibly come around on his own.

Speak to a professional about how best to move forward. My own .02

Offline iAm

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 136
  • Total likes: 37
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2018, 08:25:57 PM »
Pretty much all of it. What makes the first paragraph indisputably true? Your empirical observations? My empirical observations in my own community and family are equally valid

The first thing is just an observation that humans are dynamic, so over time, an individual and a population will either become more or less observant on a specific thing (I don't want to get into macro observance). And in this specific thing, davening, dynamicism overwhelmingly favors becoming more observant, in large part bec of parenting.
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 744
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2018, 08:26:18 PM »
While it is discussed in the baalabatush world (I think that may be a better term), my experience has been that there's such a disconnect on the davening thing, that it's not broached. It doesnt register on the girls radars at all. The discussions are way more on how to "jointly create a future" (tv at home, what type of schools, what type of camps, etc)

I'll second that.

I had no idea it was an issue hence I was surprised to hear that it is so common. I thought it was only an issue for 'bums' or others going OTD.
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
ó Richard Feynman

Online TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 19874
  • Total likes: 3169
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2018, 08:29:19 PM »
A. shias taub who?
b. there is a far cry between being your spouse's mashgiach which would be counterproductive and saying that your spouse's yiddeshkeit isn't your problem unless it effects your kids
c. the fact that line can be said with out any sort of protest and a lot of what else is being said in this thread is so so sad. we have created a different sect. a cultural Judaism not much different then reform Judaism just with emphasis on different things that are or aren't important.
A. Rabbi Shais Taub. He writes a weekly column in the Ami responding to peopleís (90% women) issues and concerns.
C. Weíre talking about someone married with children who Iím assuming would like to remain married.

Online TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 19874
  • Total likes: 3169
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2018, 08:31:19 PM »
I thought it was only an issue for 'bums' or others going OTD.
Totally not. Itís a stage (nisayon) in life that many good people go through

Offline Abebee

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 4558
  • Total likes: 206
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 234
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
  • Programs: National EE
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2018, 08:33:05 PM »
Putting on tefillin has become the new davening. And even that is eroding.
Unfortunately thats true.

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 744
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #90 on: January 10, 2018, 08:33:35 PM »
A. shias taub who?
b. there is a far cry between being your spouse's mashgiach which would be counterproductive and saying that your spouse's yiddeshkeit isn't your problem unless it effects your kids
c. the fact that line can be said with out any sort of protest and a lot of what else is being said in this thread is so so sad. we have created a different sect. a cultural Judaism not much different then reform Judaism just with emphasis on different things that are or aren't important.

It's not only with spiritual matters.

When asking advice about anything relating to men, I pretty much always get the same answers that give me the idea that men are too fragile. You can't nag, or even ask them to change.

All you can do is reinforce positive behavior (but not so much so that it feels contrived or adds too much pressure) and / or change your expectations.
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
ó Richard Feynman

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1319
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #91 on: January 10, 2018, 08:33:58 PM »
A. Rabbi Shais Taub. He writes a weekly column in the Ami responding to peopleís (90% women) issues and concerns.
C. Weíre talking about someone married with children who Iím assuming would like to remain married.
a. I was being facetious
b. you totally ignored my main point
c. not sure what that has to do with my c. unless you think my comments on this issue in a public forum will effect OPs marriage which if it is then we have much bigger problems

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1319
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #92 on: January 10, 2018, 08:36:05 PM »
It's not only with spiritual matters.

When asking advice about anything relating to men, I pretty much always get the same answers that give me the idea that men are too fragile. You can't nag, or even ask them to change.

All you can do is reinforce positive behavior (but not so much so that it feels contrived or adds too much pressure) and / or change your expectations.
well clearly I have a very different view point then most men here so maybe I should step out of this conversation.  but I will say there's a big difference between being a nag and having healthy open communication between a husband and wife

Online TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 19874
  • Total likes: 3169
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #93 on: January 10, 2018, 08:36:17 PM »
a. I was being facetious
Why ?
c. not sure what that has to do with my c. unless you think my comments on this issue in a public forum will effect OPs marriage which if it is then we have much bigger problems
These are all very important things to find out before marriage but if it happens once married itís a different ballgame

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 744
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #94 on: January 10, 2018, 08:36:39 PM »
I totally understand the social pressures that underpin a society. I'm just surprised that davening 3x a day isn't right there among them.

Take off your black hat and you're no longer Jewish, but skip davening (and tefillin) and you're a still a Sheineh Yid?

And adding my own cycnicism- isn't there some Big Brother keeping an eye out to see who shows up to shul or not?
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
ó Richard Feynman

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1319
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #95 on: January 10, 2018, 08:37:30 PM »
Why ?These are all very important things to find out before marriage but if it happens once married itís a different ballgame
a. bec u quoted him like he is an authoritative final say on the issue
b. you've lost me

Offline Abebee

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 4558
  • Total likes: 206
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 234
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
  • Programs: National EE
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #96 on: January 10, 2018, 08:38:34 PM »
And adding my own cycnicism- isn't there some Big Brother keeping an eye out to see who shows up to shul or not?
Depends which shul, and what pressure you feel from those people. People give comments all the time to others that don't show up. But unless you belong to a Chassidis there are plenty of shuls in most neighborhoods that you can Daven "anywhere"

Offline iAm

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 136
  • Total likes: 37
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #97 on: January 10, 2018, 08:42:09 PM »
And adding my own cycnicism- isn't there some Big Brother keeping an eye out to see who shows up to shul or not?

I really dont think men and woman in their 20s view religion the same way. We definitely dont think about Big Brother. That would require Yiras Shemayim. Which we don't have. We are working on it. We hope to have a greater sense of the world around us as we gain responsibility. We may even gain yiras shemayim. When we get that, well make it to davening.
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 744
  • Total likes: 57
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #98 on: January 10, 2018, 08:44:57 PM »
This is the point. And while we may band aid up issues that have been arising the past decade, that just perpetuates this very "other-cultarism". I feel like we all deep down recognize this, and in the effort to correct this, the Institution is going to error on protecting itself, and were going to devolve into further tribalism.

That scares the h*ll out of me.
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
ó Richard Feynman

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1319
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #99 on: January 10, 2018, 08:46:39 PM »
I really dont think men and woman in their 20s view religion the same way. We definitely dont think about Big Brother. That would require Yiras Shemayim. Which we don't have. We are working on it. We hope to have a greater sense of the world around us as we gain responsibility. We may even gain yiras shemayim. When we get that, well make it to davening.
sounds like a whole lot of projection going on...