Poll

Are you frum and do you daven daily?

I'm frum and I (mostly) daven with a minyan 3x a day
94 (60.6%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven without a minyan 3x a day
19 (12.3%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven daily
23 (14.8%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) don't daven every day
13 (8.4%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) daven daily
2 (1.3%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) don't daven daily
4 (2.6%)

Total Members Voted: 155

Author Topic: Do you Daven?  (Read 59691 times)

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #100 on: January 10, 2018, 08:47:37 PM »
I really dont think men and woman in their 20s view religion the same way. We definitely dont think about Big Brother. That would require Yiras Shemayim. Which we don't have. We are working on it. We hope to have a greater sense of the world around us as we gain responsibility. We may even gain yiras shemayim. When we get that, well make it to davening.

Ah, maybe we're getting to the crux of the issue.

Don't guys realize they've just gained a huge responsibility when they get married?

Which makes me wonder whether this is also an issue for Type A kind of frum guys...
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
— Richard Feynman

Offline Sammy82

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #101 on: January 10, 2018, 08:52:58 PM »
Men don't think, so you're already expecting too much from us. We also don't do a lot of other things you may or may not realize. Brachos both before and after eating. Washing is dwindling. Wearing Tzitzis wearing is starting to go down in teenagers (something that wasn't a question to do when I was in high school)...
I must have been living under a rock. I and my chevra would never ever ever think of [not] doing those things. Not to show off or ch"v put people down. But to make statements that sounds like what ur saying is the norm is completely foreign to me. Maybe it's my OOT upbringing. IDK. But I'm blown away.

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #102 on: January 10, 2018, 08:54:41 PM »
sounds like a whole lot of projection going on...

Perhaps - its literally a running monologue from my head to your screen, so i think thats pretty implicit. But the 2 woman on this forum so far have concurred. so maybe theres a point to be said. I also have no clue how old anyone else is, and Im getting the feeling that the average age of the other males is double me; so we may have different paradigms.
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Offline yitrap

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #103 on: January 10, 2018, 09:16:07 PM »
Perhaps - its literally a running monologue from my head to your screen, so i think thats pretty implicit. But the 2 woman on this forum so far have concurred. so maybe theres a point to be said. I also have no clue how old anyone else is, and Im getting the feeling that the average age of the other males is double me; so we may have different paradigms.
.
Maybe in your community. Not among the people I know

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #104 on: January 10, 2018, 09:16:20 PM »
Ah, maybe we're getting to the crux of the issue.

Don't guys realize they've just gained a huge responsibility when they get married?


Yes and no. I dont think that the initial marriage responsibility, which good male spouses do recognize, translates to religious observance well. Child raising (and more specifically, adolescent raising), is a much better catalyst for that IMO
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #105 on: January 10, 2018, 09:20:36 PM »
Need to add following options to the poll:

  • I always say the words but only occasionally really daven.
  • I say the words and try to daven at least X times a week.
SCOTUS!!! SCOTUS!!!

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #106 on: January 10, 2018, 09:21:25 PM »
@yitrap according to the poll were holding at 28% of people either mostly davening without a minyan or not davening at all.

The results are also getting confounded by the fact that people are responding who dont fit the demographic of the OP - 20/30 year olds with younger kids. The most part is also getting confounded by recall bias.

But even without that point, 25% is really high for an issue that has not crossed the mind of the dozens of wives of my friends in that demographic - and we literally sat as a bunch of couple on shabbos discussing this.
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #107 on: January 10, 2018, 09:21:31 PM »
Here is my theory: ...
What paragraph are you disputing? The first is pretty indisputably true; we can argue about extant and effects.
  ???  ???

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #108 on: January 10, 2018, 09:22:45 PM »
  ???  ???

lol. true. but my thesis was really the last two paragraphs.
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Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #109 on: January 10, 2018, 09:23:07 PM »
As a mom of an almost bar mitzvah boy, this is a big issue in my house. My son is very concerned how he will daven mariv daily, since dh doesn't go out at night, unless it's to the gym.

A father that doesn't daven isn't the best role model for the kids. It seems like it would be up to me to drive my son to minyan every night and on days off. This is the main reason why I am sending him to camp.
חזקי ואמצי!!!

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #110 on: January 10, 2018, 09:27:19 PM »
@yitrap according to the poll were holding at 28% of people either mostly davening without a minyan or not davening at all.

The results are also getting confounded by the fact that people are responding who dont fit the demographic of the OP - 20/30 year olds with younger kids. The most part is also getting confounded by recall bias.

But even without that point, 25% is really high for an issue that has not crossed the mind of the dozens of wives of my friends in that demographic - and we literally sat as a bunch of couple on shabbos discussing this.

The sample size is still way too small to make any assumptions
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
— Richard Feynman

Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #111 on: January 10, 2018, 09:28:00 PM »
I once heard a speech from R Wachsman shlita about the great difference between davening and learning. He went into it in much more depth, but the revolving point was that Hashem created the Torah כי הם חיינו. This means that the Torah carries a life of its own. It brings itself to life, thereby lifting the learner with it. Davening, on the other hand, was not designed this way. In other words, it is up to the one davening to bring the words and meanings to life on his or her own. This is a (1) very daunting task for most; (2) very exhausting and tiring task for most; and/or, (3) task that people don't realize that this is part of what it takes to daven, so they just give up when it gets too difficult.

Offline aygart

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #112 on: January 10, 2018, 09:29:57 PM »
@yitrap according to the poll were holding at 28% of people either mostly davening without a minyan or not davening at all.

The results are also getting confounded by the fact that people are responding who dont fit the demographic of the OP - 20/30 year olds with younger kids. The most part is also getting confounded by recall bias.

But even without that point, 25% is really high for an issue that has not crossed the mind of the dozens of wives of my friends in that demographic - and we literally sat as a bunch of couple on shabbos discussing this.
Also need to take into consideration those whose job does not allow for davening mincha with a minyan
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline a good yeshiva bachur

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #113 on: January 10, 2018, 09:30:31 PM »
And adding my own cycnicism- isn't there some Big Brother keeping an eye out to see who shows up to shul or not?
Not if you go to a minyan factory...

Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #114 on: January 10, 2018, 09:30:45 PM »
Also need to take into consideration those whose job does not allow for davening mincha with a minyan
אונס רחמנא פטריה

Offline a good yeshiva bachur

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #115 on: January 10, 2018, 09:32:14 PM »
Also need to take into consideration those whose job does not allow for davening mincha with a minyan
When there’s a will there’s a way

Offline aygart

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #116 on: January 10, 2018, 09:33:03 PM »
When there’s a will there’s a way
That is easy for you to say
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline a good yeshiva bachur

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #117 on: January 10, 2018, 09:35:41 PM »
That is easy for you to say
True cause im in Yeshiva however there are plenty of working people that are makpid and make a special effort to always Daven with a minyan

Offline stbaum

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #118 on: January 10, 2018, 09:36:12 PM »
I would have so much to say if this ‘was’ in fact, Imamother and there was an ‘anonymous’ option
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Offline HBS

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #119 on: January 10, 2018, 09:38:12 PM »
When there’s a will there’s a way
Not always true. I sometimes work approx. 30 minutes away from a minyan, so it's not feasible, nor halachically required.