Poll

Are you frum and do you daven daily?

I'm frum and I (mostly) daven with a minyan 3x a day
91 (60.7%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven without a minyan 3x a day
18 (12%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven daily
22 (14.7%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) don't daven every day
13 (8.7%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) daven daily
2 (1.3%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) don't daven daily
4 (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 150

Author Topic: Do you Daven?  (Read 14135 times)

Offline HBS

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #135 on: January 10, 2018, 09:55:17 PM »
at first i couldnt understand how this first part of  your statement reconciles with everything else you are saying.
then I see lines like these and it makes some sense I just dont know where you picked up these perceptions of God and tefillah....
Hollywood, perhaps.

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #136 on: January 10, 2018, 10:01:13 PM »
That doesn’t make him right

This entire thread has very little to do with being right or wrong.

What it does for me is show me that if I can respect @shiframeir as good person, then I should be able to do so for my own husband.
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
— Richard Feynman

Offline rs242

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Do you Daven?
« Reply #137 on: January 10, 2018, 10:04:41 PM »
This entire thread has very little to do with being right or wrong.

What it does for me is show me that if I can respect @shiframeir as good person, then I should be able to do so for my own husband.
You need to find other ways to respect him (the way he treats you or the kids etc...). Once your kids start to get older he will realize on his own and take responsibility. (I don’t feel comfortable talking like I am some maven on life, but just sharing from past experience).

Offline elit

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #138 on: January 10, 2018, 10:06:05 PM »
I should qualify that it no way am I coming from a holier than though attitude, my davening leaves a whole lot to be desired but I just don't understand how one can say on an intellectual level  I'm a completely believing jew in Torah and mesorah but davening is just not for me so, maybe one day...

Offline wayfe

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #139 on: January 10, 2018, 10:07:17 PM »
I think a few posters have collectively explained the issue.
To have a connection to tefilla, meaningful, at least, you need a few ingredients. You need to understand what you are saying (and I mean every word), otherwise, you will skip everything. You need to stop and think about what you are saying or you won't connect, even when you do understand. You need to believe that Hashem wants to hear what you are saying.
The first thing can, in theory, be rectified by iyun tefilla. The second, is harder. You need a lot of preparation. You need to shut off your phone  and clear your mind. Third takes a lot of mussar and hashkafa learning.
But it's doable for everyone, they just need to want to do it. They need to want it for themselves. Not for their wife, not for their kids. It can't be forced.

I think the problem is that we are in a world if constant distraction and instant results. That makes it harder. That is why tefillah is an avodah. Especially true today.

I think there is a fourth aspect, which is desperation. And that sometimes trumps all the points you mentioned.
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
— Richard Feynman

Offline thaber

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #140 on: January 10, 2018, 10:09:20 PM »
I must have been living under a rock. I and my chevra would never ever ever think of [not] doing those things. Not to show off or ch"v put people down. But to make statements that sounds like what ur saying is the norm is completely foreign to me. Maybe it's my OOT upbringing. IDK. But I'm blown away.
I would imagine most of us are under your rock
I don't think @iAm is describing normative behavior for the average DDF'er.

Offline HBS

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #141 on: January 10, 2018, 10:09:21 PM »
I think there is a fourth aspect, which is desperation. And that sometimes trumps all the points you mentioned.
Desperation isn't something you work on. It's something that Hashem gives to you to encourage you to daven.
To paraphrase R Avigdor Miller...it's when people sit around complaining that they are bored that Hashem gives them something to do...

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #142 on: January 10, 2018, 10:11:04 PM »
It's not only with spiritual matters.

When asking advice about anything relating to men, I pretty much always get the same answers that give me the idea that men are too fragile. You can't nag, or even ask them to change.

All you can do is reinforce positive behavior (but not so much so that it feels contrived or adds too much pressure) and / or change your expectations.

I wouldn't say that men are too fragile.

I would say that the way marriage worked at least through the year 1900 was that the husband was the "captain" of the ship and the wife was "first mate". Part of that is that the FM doesn't tell the Cpt'n to change and figures out a different way to cause change. Otherwise the Cpt'n feels that he isn't the Cpt'n.

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #143 on: January 10, 2018, 10:11:43 PM »
I think there is a fourth aspect, which is desperation. And that sometimes trumps all the points you mentioned.

Theres no atheists in the foxhole...but that's not exactly what your aiming for.

I think over time men will ultimately gravitate towards it because of the cognitive dissonance they have with adolescent raising. Take Shifra Meir...he's obviously going through some conflict now that he senses he is rubbing off on his kid. He also genuinely doesn't see classical tefilla as an approach for him (that resonates with many people). That conflict is going to resolve over time; if not with the first kid, then with the second. And then his daughter will be a Wayfe.

The thing is that often sons will attune if their dad is "culturally praying" on their behalf without the avodah. So those sons becomes Wayfe's Husbands. Sometimes, fathers will take the opportunity to actually work on their davening instead of doing it for their kids; and then they break the cycle.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:18:45 PM by iAm »
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline elit

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #144 on: January 10, 2018, 10:12:21 PM »
I wouldn't say that men are too fragile.

I would say that the way marriage worked at least through the year 1900 was that the husband was the "captain" of the ship and the wife was "first mate". Part of that is that the FM doesn't tell the Cpt'n to change and figures out a different way to cause change. Otherwise the Cpt'n feels that he isn't the Cpt'n.
well maybe they used to be better captains

Online Abebee

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #145 on: January 10, 2018, 10:19:41 PM »
I should qualify that it no way am I coming from a holier than though attitude, my davening leaves a whole lot to be desired but I just don't understand how one can say on an intellectual level  I'm a completely believing jew in Torah and mesorah but davening is just not for me so, maybe one day...
For each their own, everyone is lacking in something. with Davening its all about understanding what you are saying.
If you don't understand its just standing and reading a book.
Its not that Davening isn't for me, its that davening is really hard for me. That doesn't make him a non believing jew.

Offline Sammy82

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #146 on: January 10, 2018, 10:20:08 PM »
So you're 35 and live in the 5 Towns. How do you perceive your community? How many people at the W or 30 under 30 davened weekdays before their kids were in 5th grade? And that sect is arguable 'balabatush' not modern orthodox.
1) I only davened at the W once (that I could recall)
2) I daven with many of my chevra day in day out. I know who's there. The ones that are not there I assume that they daven elsewhere. There are many shuls to daven at, at many different times.
3) personally, I'm very set in my ways. I daven at the same minyanim almost all the time.
4) I guess this is why r avigdor Miller says that it's aultra important to be koveah yourself with tefillos. (10 commandments of marriage).
5) Obviously there are tons of people in the extended community that aren't like me. But from the people that grew up in similar circles and lead similar lifestyle to me, I think that most daven with a minyan 3x a day most of the time.
I'll write more maybe when I'm in front of my PC. Too hard on a phone.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:30:54 PM by Sammy82 »

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #147 on: January 10, 2018, 10:27:04 PM »
@shiframeir, you mention skipping davening to help your wife/kids/friends just a little bit more. Why not daven for them?

You also mention that you and others are "too practical" for the whole tefila idea. Why do you keep kashrus? Taahras hamishpacha? Is there a practical side to that?

I'm not trying to attack. However, @wayfe's husband seems to be maskim it's one of his shortcomings. You seem to be fine with your decisions.

Offline shiframeir

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #148 on: January 10, 2018, 10:29:29 PM »
He means btzibbur, formal davening. דארייתא is tefilla not content
Yup, and whether it is asking for stuff vs acknowledging/thanks is another issue.

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #149 on: January 10, 2018, 10:30:22 PM »
If you don't understand its just standing and reading a book.
No it isn't. Sorry.

On a most basic level it's identifying with the understanding that there is a higher authority. Being maskim to HaShem. And mesorah.