Poll

Are you frum and do you daven daily?

I'm frum and I (mostly) daven with a minyan 3x a day
93 (61.2%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven without a minyan 3x a day
18 (11.8%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven daily
22 (14.5%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) don't daven every day
13 (8.6%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) daven daily
2 (1.3%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) don't daven daily
4 (2.6%)

Total Members Voted: 152

Author Topic: Do you Daven?  (Read 26157 times)

Offline thaber

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #140 on: January 10, 2018, 10:09:20 PM »
I must have been living under a rock. I and my chevra would never ever ever think of [not] doing those things. Not to show off or ch"v put people down. But to make statements that sounds like what ur saying is the norm is completely foreign to me. Maybe it's my OOT upbringing. IDK. But I'm blown away.
I would imagine most of us are under your rock
I don't think @iAm is describing normative behavior for the average DDF'er.

Offline HBS

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #141 on: January 10, 2018, 10:09:21 PM »
I think there is a fourth aspect, which is desperation. And that sometimes trumps all the points you mentioned.
Desperation isn't something you work on. It's something that Hashem gives to you to encourage you to daven.
To paraphrase R Avigdor Miller...it's when people sit around complaining that they are bored that Hashem gives them something to do...

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #142 on: January 10, 2018, 10:11:04 PM »
It's not only with spiritual matters.

When asking advice about anything relating to men, I pretty much always get the same answers that give me the idea that men are too fragile. You can't nag, or even ask them to change.

All you can do is reinforce positive behavior (but not so much so that it feels contrived or adds too much pressure) and / or change your expectations.

I wouldn't say that men are too fragile.

I would say that the way marriage worked at least through the year 1900 was that the husband was the "captain" of the ship and the wife was "first mate". Part of that is that the FM doesn't tell the Cpt'n to change and figures out a different way to cause change. Otherwise the Cpt'n feels that he isn't the Cpt'n.

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #143 on: January 10, 2018, 10:11:43 PM »
I think there is a fourth aspect, which is desperation. And that sometimes trumps all the points you mentioned.

Theres no atheists in the foxhole...but that's not exactly what your aiming for.

I think over time men will ultimately gravitate towards it because of the cognitive dissonance they have with adolescent raising. Take Shifra Meir...he's obviously going through some conflict now that he senses he is rubbing off on his kid. He also genuinely doesn't see classical tefilla as an approach for him (that resonates with many people). That conflict is going to resolve over time; if not with the first kid, then with the second. And then his daughter will be a Wayfe.

The thing is that often sons will attune if their dad is "culturally praying" on their behalf without the avodah. So those sons becomes Wayfe's Husbands. Sometimes, fathers will take the opportunity to actually work on their davening instead of doing it for their kids; and then they break the cycle.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:18:45 PM by iAm »
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Offline elit

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #144 on: January 10, 2018, 10:12:21 PM »
I wouldn't say that men are too fragile.

I would say that the way marriage worked at least through the year 1900 was that the husband was the "captain" of the ship and the wife was "first mate". Part of that is that the FM doesn't tell the Cpt'n to change and figures out a different way to cause change. Otherwise the Cpt'n feels that he isn't the Cpt'n.
well maybe they used to be better captains

Offline Abebee

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #145 on: January 10, 2018, 10:19:41 PM »
I should qualify that it no way am I coming from a holier than though attitude, my davening leaves a whole lot to be desired but I just don't understand how one can say on an intellectual level  I'm a completely believing jew in Torah and mesorah but davening is just not for me so, maybe one day...
For each their own, everyone is lacking in something. with Davening its all about understanding what you are saying.
If you don't understand its just standing and reading a book.
Its not that Davening isn't for me, its that davening is really hard for me. That doesn't make him a non believing jew.

Online Sammy82

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #146 on: January 10, 2018, 10:20:08 PM »
So you're 35 and live in the 5 Towns. How do you perceive your community? How many people at the W or 30 under 30 davened weekdays before their kids were in 5th grade? And that sect is arguable 'balabatush' not modern orthodox.
1) I only davened at the W once (that I could recall)
2) I daven with many of my chevra day in day out. I know who's there. The ones that are not there I assume that they daven elsewhere. There are many shuls to daven at, at many different times.
3) personally, I'm very set in my ways. I daven at the same minyanim almost all the time.
4) I guess this is why r avigdor Miller says that it's aultra important to be koveah yourself with tefillos. (10 commandments of marriage).
5) Obviously there are tons of people in the extended community that aren't like me. But from the people that grew up in similar circles and lead similar lifestyle to me, I think that most daven with a minyan 3x a day most of the time.
I'll write more maybe when I'm in front of my PC. Too hard on a phone.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:30:54 PM by Sammy82 »

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #147 on: January 10, 2018, 10:27:04 PM »
@shiframeir, you mention skipping davening to help your wife/kids/friends just a little bit more. Why not daven for them?

You also mention that you and others are "too practical" for the whole tefila idea. Why do you keep kashrus? Taahras hamishpacha? Is there a practical side to that?

I'm not trying to attack. However, @wayfe's husband seems to be maskim it's one of his shortcomings. You seem to be fine with your decisions.

Offline shiframeir

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #148 on: January 10, 2018, 10:29:29 PM »
He means btzibbur, formal davening. דארייתא is tefilla not content
Yup, and whether it is asking for stuff vs acknowledging/thanks is another issue.

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #149 on: January 10, 2018, 10:30:22 PM »
If you don't understand its just standing and reading a book.
No it isn't. Sorry.

On a most basic level it's identifying with the understanding that there is a higher authority. Being maskim to HaShem. And mesorah.

Offline elit

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2018, 10:31:46 PM »


No it isn't. Sorry.

On a most basic level it's identifying with the understanding that there is a higher authority. Being maskim to HaShem. And mesorah. and halacha
FTFY
always thought the main point of discrepancy between orthodoxy and other denominations is we don't get to pick and choose

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #151 on: January 10, 2018, 10:34:09 PM »
This entire thread has very little to do with being right or wrong.

What it does for me is show me that if I can respect @shiframeir as good person, then I should be able to do so for my own husband.

Whining and nudging will only push him away. Be strong and stop mentioning it, he will get there one day, I can promise you that. Every man wants to make their wife happy but it has to be on their own.

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2018, 10:35:08 PM »
I thought the whole point of life was to be an eved Hashem.

If the master says to do, you do. What am I missing?

Offline Mordyk

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #153 on: January 10, 2018, 10:36:20 PM »
This sounds more like an imamother discussion
-1.  Its important to hear a mans perspective(other than her husband). Men struggling to go to shul or daven does not mean they dont like hashem, disregard yiddishkeit or whatever else.  Its a big nisoyan which many men fall through. Does not mean its at all the correct way, just stating the fact of the issue. Does not define the character of a husband.

I thought the whole point of life was to be an eved Hashem.

If the master says to do, you do. What am I missing?
You listen to everything hashem says? If the answer is yes then you are lying. But do you try your best? Could be. But im sure you have your things which you find hard to listen to as well.

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #154 on: January 10, 2018, 10:38:22 PM »
This entire thread has very little to do with being right or wrong.

What it does for me is show me that if I can respect @shiframeir as good person, then I should be able to do so for my own husband.
Even without ShifraMeir, I would tell you that he has nisyonos, and when you talk to him, he agrees it isn't right.

So he's struggling. And it isn't easy.

And while it may seem easy, because of his father and FIL, for him it isn't.

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2018, 10:38:46 PM »
No it isn't. Sorry.

On a most basic level it's identifying with the understanding that there is a higher authority. Being maskim to HaShem. And mesorah.



Abebee was just expressing a feeling of hollowness when one does not feel connected to tefilla. Im not sure how you can challenge his emotions.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:54:16 PM by iAm »
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Online aygart

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #156 on: January 10, 2018, 10:39:01 PM »
Isn't that called a new account?
Well now that you told her that...
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #157 on: January 10, 2018, 10:40:30 PM »

BTW, there are many other reasons why people don't go to shul.

1. They owe money for the whole world

2. Social issues

3. Youth memories, having their father slap them constantly

And the rest that were mentioned above, not understanding a word or feeling no connection in davening.

Offline shiframeir

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #158 on: January 10, 2018, 10:41:39 PM »
I would have so much to say if this ‘was’ in fact, Imamother and there was an ‘anonymous’ option
R @stbaum why do u need anonymity? stating where u are (or are not) should not be something you are embarrassed about, unless of course u are in a community where your kids will be kicked out of school/lose shidduchim.

Offline henche

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #159 on: January 10, 2018, 10:43:00 PM »
Y no option for always