Poll

Are you frum and do you daven daily?

I'm frum and I (mostly) daven with a minyan 3x a day
93 (61.2%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven without a minyan 3x a day
18 (11.8%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) daven daily
22 (14.5%)
I'm frum and I (mostly) don't daven every day
13 (8.6%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) daven daily
2 (1.3%)
I'm not frum and I (mostly) don't daven daily
4 (2.6%)

Total Members Voted: 152

Author Topic: Do you Daven?  (Read 23965 times)

Offline elit

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2018, 10:31:46 PM »


No it isn't. Sorry.

On a most basic level it's identifying with the understanding that there is a higher authority. Being maskim to HaShem. And mesorah. and halacha
FTFY
always thought the main point of discrepancy between orthodoxy and other denominations is we don't get to pick and choose

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #151 on: January 10, 2018, 10:34:09 PM »
This entire thread has very little to do with being right or wrong.

What it does for me is show me that if I can respect @shiframeir as good person, then I should be able to do so for my own husband.

Whining and nudging will only push him away. Be strong and stop mentioning it, he will get there one day, I can promise you that. Every man wants to make their wife happy but it has to be on their own.

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2018, 10:35:08 PM »
I thought the whole point of life was to be an eved Hashem.

If the master says to do, you do. What am I missing?

Offline Mordyk

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #153 on: January 10, 2018, 10:36:20 PM »
This sounds more like an imamother discussion
-1.  Its important to hear a mans perspective(other than her husband). Men struggling to go to shul or daven does not mean they dont like hashem, disregard yiddishkeit or whatever else.  Its a big nisoyan which many men fall through. Does not mean its at all the correct way, just stating the fact of the issue. Does not define the character of a husband.

I thought the whole point of life was to be an eved Hashem.

If the master says to do, you do. What am I missing?
You listen to everything hashem says? If the answer is yes then you are lying. But do you try your best? Could be. But im sure you have your things which you find hard to listen to as well.

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #154 on: January 10, 2018, 10:38:22 PM »
This entire thread has very little to do with being right or wrong.

What it does for me is show me that if I can respect @shiframeir as good person, then I should be able to do so for my own husband.
Even without ShifraMeir, I would tell you that he has nisyonos, and when you talk to him, he agrees it isn't right.

So he's struggling. And it isn't easy.

And while it may seem easy, because of his father and FIL, for him it isn't.

Offline iAm

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2018, 10:38:46 PM »
No it isn't. Sorry.

On a most basic level it's identifying with the understanding that there is a higher authority. Being maskim to HaShem. And mesorah.



Abebee was just expressing a feeling of hollowness when one does not feel connected to tefilla. Im not sure how you can challenge his emotions.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:54:16 PM by iAm »
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Online aygart

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #156 on: January 10, 2018, 10:39:01 PM »
Isn't that called a new account?
Well now that you told her that...
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #157 on: January 10, 2018, 10:40:30 PM »

BTW, there are many other reasons why people don't go to shul.

1. They owe money for the whole world

2. Social issues

3. Youth memories, having their father slap them constantly

And the rest that were mentioned above, not understanding a word or feeling no connection in davening.

Offline shiframeir

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #158 on: January 10, 2018, 10:41:39 PM »
I would have so much to say if this ‘was’ in fact, Imamother and there was an ‘anonymous’ option
R @stbaum why do u need anonymity? stating where u are (or are not) should not be something you are embarrassed about, unless of course u are in a community where your kids will be kicked out of school/lose shidduchim.

Offline henche

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #159 on: January 10, 2018, 10:43:00 PM »
Y no option for always

Online aygart

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #160 on: January 10, 2018, 10:44:20 PM »
R @stbaum why do u need anonymity? stating where u are (or are not) should not be something you are embarrassed about, unless of course u are in a community where your kids will be kicked out of school/lose shidduchim.
To each her own
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #161 on: January 10, 2018, 10:45:50 PM »
When there’s a will there’s a way

That is easy for you to say

True cause im in Yeshiva however there are plenty of working people that are makpid and make a special effort to always Daven with a minyan
In a fantasy world. I know many who are "makpid" and make efforts, but still don't daven mincha with a minyan. It's not realistic for many.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #162 on: January 10, 2018, 10:53:06 PM »
3. Youth memories, having their father slap them constantly
I can see how that might have an effect.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline shiframeir

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #163 on: January 10, 2018, 10:58:29 PM »
I think a few posters have collectively explained the issue.
To have a connection to tefilla, meaningful, at least, you need a few ingredients. You need to understand what you are saying (and I mean every word), otherwise, you will skip everything. You need to stop and think about what you are saying or you won't connect, even when you do understand. You need to believe that Hashem wants to hear what you are saying.
The first thing can, in theory, be rectified by iyun tefilla. The second, is harder. You need a lot of preparation. You need to shut off your phone  and clear your mind. Third takes a lot of mussar and hashkafa learning.
But it's doable for everyone, they just need to want to do it. They need to want it for themselves. Not for their wife, not for their kids. It can't be forced.

I think the problem is that we are in a world if constant distraction and instant results. That makes it harder. That is why tefillah is an avodah. Especially true today.
i learned in yeshiva for years and was a great davener (and i still am a great davener come tisha bav or other occasions). i know what every word means. i am a good concentrator and dont get distracted easily. but i am also very lazy and like to come up with excuses (i am a lawyer). and when excuses sound reasonable then the war is already lost.

For each their own, everyone is lacking in something. with Davening its all about understanding what you are saying.
If you don't understand its just standing and reading a book.
understanding doesnt give one a reason to take the significant time to say over the same thing again and again without any clear change in circumstance.

@shiframeir, you mention skipping davening to help your wife/kids/friends just a little bit more. Why not daven for them?

You also mention that you and others are "too practical" for the whole tefila idea. Why do you keep kashrus? Taahras hamishpacha? Is there a practical side to that?

I'm not trying to attack. However, @wayfe's husband seems to be maskim it's one of his shortcomings. You seem to be fine with your decisions.
Im not fine at all, i know im living bedieved and wish i was a superhero tzaddik. we have a mechanism that explains away when we are doing wrong (though it leads us to hyperfocus on yenem), and that is an important survival mechanism. i do not find fulfillment with minyan catching anymore. personally, for one reason or another i dont think deep down that its worth bothering hashem for most things for me, which he just always gives me when i need it anyway (bh i am lucky). i daven for my family/friends all the time in silent thought with god, but reading words written a long time ago like tachanun in shul with others just aint appealing and doesnt do the job nearly as good as a real cry to Him.

i dont remember what the practical thing was. i keep kashrus and taharas hamishpacha because God passed it down at sinai (with room for the rabbanan to make the gedarim) as rules of the road. prayer with minyan and by our standard text is a positive concept established by the rabbanan when we lost karbanos (lets not get into avos or karbanos). Im sure Hashem gets some nachas (whatever that means) from those who do it right and whose mindset/personality it fits to have a tight schedule of prayers etc. i did it for a long time and at some point it just wasnt working for me religously (or i'm just lacking or let my yetzer get the better). the point is though, hardly anyone is the whole package, thats what a gadol is. i happen to not be an avodah jew. and i know plenty of others like me.

Offline shiframeir

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Re: Do you Daven?
« Reply #164 on: January 10, 2018, 11:00:45 PM »