Do you Daven?

[ExGingi]

+1 it would help, though, if people actually know and appreciate what they are saying.
I think that's where thr biggest disconnect comes from.

תפסת מרובה, לא תפסת.

Anyone can start with one paragraph (or even sentence a day).  I once heard a suggestion from R Meir Pogrow (of Master Torah) to take one piece of Davening a day, and say it in English (or Yiddish if that's your primary language). It will make a huge difference.

One needs to start by being honest with themselves about what they truly understand and what they don't (goes even for most basic חומש מיט רש״י), and start tackling that one piece at a time to make sure there's an understanding, rather than just faking an understanding.

[Eliyohu]

I once prayed to G-d to just let me win this one bet and I would quit. I lost the bet and quit. Never had a betting problem since that day. Was my prayer answered?

No prayer goes unanswered.. the answer is sometimes, No. Theres a lot on the topic but a high level of prayer and "belief" is to ask G-D to do what's best, and it should be clear to you as to what happens is really for your best.

[Proisrael]

Wasn't Davening misakin so men can get out at bedtime and sending kids to school???

In all seriousness though how many people go to shul 3* a day for "social reasons"? Is talking in shul worse then not showing up at all?

[HBS]

Interspersed with the question of tefilla btzibur asked by OP, there seems to be a fundamental issue in Shalom bayis that is being overlooked.
Namely, if you are unhappy with your husband's behavior especially in ruchniyos, how can you change it.
I think that should be addressed as well.
I'm no expert, but I truly believe that you aren't going to change your spouse's behavior by nagging, criticizing, etc.
What you can do is set a good example, show them that you want to grow in ruchniyos in the house, and offer them the opportunity to grow with you. Perhaps ask your husband to listen to a shiur or learn with you- not the obviously sorry topic of tefilla, at least not just yet.
It's worked for me countless times. It's helped both me and my wife grow in our relationship and in our ruchniyos.

Thoughts? (Don't have to ask, I'm sure everyone will offer their 0.02$)

[skyguy918]

...the davening feels fake--just going through motions. It's a horrible feeling, and leads many to skip it altogether, or as often as their conscience allows.

Isn't that feeling a mistake though? Sure it doesn't have the same great feeling that a truly heartfelt davening instills, but it's something we're required to do. Aren't we better off with our 'fake' davening in those situations than with skipping altogether?

As an aside, it seems this is less of problem with the older generations. The 60+ crowd is much better with never missing minyan, even in very modern communities. Perhaps the younger generation is more honest with itself.

Maybe. Or maybe they have a greater yiras ha'onesh. Or maybe their larger body of life experience helps them to better appreciate davening with a minyan. There are lots of reasons for the discrepancy - I think overestimating our generation and underestimating the older generation to skip straight to who is being more honest with themselves.

[chaimmayer]

I once heard a suggestion from R Meir Pogrow

Find someone else to quote

[ExGingi]

Find someone else to quote

Why would you care? I find his suggestion valid. He definitely has very constructive suggestions on learning.

[chaimmayer]

Cause he's a מנובל
https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/pogrow-ruling-translation-hebrew-original/

[skyguy918]

Cause he's a מנובל
https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/pogrow-ruling-translation-hebrew-original/

You could've referenced the same thing from a better source.

[chaimmayer]

Agreed I thought some might take issue with that
But it's just the quickest from a google search

[ExGingi]

Cause he's a מנובל
https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/pogrow-ruling-translation-hebrew-original/

Oops. I wasn't aware.

[skyguy918]

Agreed I thought some might take issue with that
But it's just the quickest from a google search

I don't really take issue. I was just pointing out the appearance of contradiction.

[chaimmayer]

Don't want to hijack this thread but is he really,that bad?

[good sam]

Isn't that feeling a mistake though? Sure it doesn't have the same great feeling that a truly heartfelt davening instills, but it's something we're required to do. Aren't we better off with our 'fake' davening in those situations than with skipping altogether?

Yes. But this isn't a discussion of right and wrong.

Maybe. Or maybe they have a greater yiras ha'onesh. Or maybe their larger body of life experience helps them to better appreciate davening with a minyan. There are lots of reasons for the discrepancy - I think overestimating our generation and underestimating the older generation to skip straight to who is being more honest with themselves.

Maybe.

[Dawie]

I guess it's just a bit of my bitterness coming through.

I can't stand fakes, and I would almost sooner get used to a secular lifestyle than go through this constant game of Now We're Frum, Now We're Not.

It just hurts too much...

Iv'e been following this and this is an issue dear to my heart, i make an effort to go to minyan 3x a day and i'm dismayed when i see friends not caring about it as i do.
I think alot of this has to do with maturity, that once one gets married and the "shackles" of Parents and Teachers come off, people tend to dump things they were forced to do and were never properly explained why it was necessary
With that said i would like to ask a question (maybe even start a new thread) I would compare a mans davening to a women tzinus in the context of the forum.
How do you dress? are you as tzinus as your mother or mother in law? (as Aygart said before feel free not to answer as it is a public forum)

[mgarfin]

A good thing that I got from reading this popcorn.
When I started davening today in the morning I thought to myself about struggles others have with davening.
I questioned myself am I davening the way I should? 

It made me daven with more kavonah and try to take it to a higher level.

 

[Dawie]

Interspersed with the question of tefilla btzibur asked by OP, there seems to be a fundamental issue in Shalom bayis that is being overlooked.
Namely, if you are unhappy with your husband's behavior especially in ruchniyos, how can you change it.
I think that should be addressed as well.
I'm no expert, but I truly believe that you aren't going to change your spouse's behavior by nagging, criticizing, etc.
What you can do is set a good example, show them that you want to grow in ruchniyos in the house, and offer them the opportunity to grow with you. Perhaps ask your husband to listen to a shiur or learn with you- not the obviously sorry topic of tefilla, at least not just yet.
It's worked for me countless times. It's helped both me and my wife grow in our relationship and in our ruchniyos.

Thoughts? (Don't have to ask, I'm sure everyone will offer their 0.02$)

i was actually just going to suggest this, this help DW and Myself immeasurably
Learn together the books like R Heshy Kleinman, Praying with fire

[skyguy918]

A good thing that I got from reading this popcorn.
When I started davening today in the morning I thought to myself about struggles others have with davening.
I questioned myself am I davening the way I should? 

It made me daven with more kavonah and try to take it to a higher level.

 

+1. This is not the first thread of DDF to touch on issues of davening and kavana, but for some reason it's the first to have that effect on me.

[chevron]

Wow didnt expect this on DDF, glad I saw this in AM (before praying)

If I could get my Rabbi and Chavrusa Eily Smith here, that would be incredible.

I didnt get to read thorough all but I'll start. Even after I became religious again, most days tefillah was tefiliin, shma, shmona esray.

Sadly this seems to be very normal. I suffer from terrible ADD and was a wreck for years and had no patience saying pisukey dezimra etc.

A few things changed that, life style changes and the book on prayer by Rabbi Munk, also I use the Koren Sacks Siddur and Rabbbi JB soloveitchik siddur, they just came out with Rabbi kook siddur, i'll get that.

I was raised using a chabad siddur but we davened at young israel, chabad siddur doesnt do it for me, would love to see Rabbi Sacks andd Shteinzaltz put one out maybe jointly, but chabad scholarship is terrible

I just have no patience for minyan, prayer is avodah sh'balev, I just dont like the shull. People treat the shull as a social club and frankly I dont. Im not saying shull should be like kol nidrei every shabbat but dont treat it like purim.

Thee fundamental problem is that people that do go to shull, often are empty, the prayers mean nothing to them.

My advice? Get a Koren siddur, pray in english

[ckmk47]

I once prayed to G-d to just let me win this one bet and I would quit. I lost the bet and quit. Never had a betting problem since that day. Was my prayer answered?

It seems to me that He answered your real prayer - To have the strength to quit.