Author Topic: Yeshiva Education Models?  (Read 1906 times)

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2019, 01:03:40 AM »
My kids don't go to OT, but I believe OT (and OM, and now also OYY) are unique in not teaching ANY English EVER. I believe they do teach some Yiddish and לשון הקודש "grammar" (probably more like basic language rules). I just came back from an open house with the teachers of my 6th grade son at OM. The afternoon teacher said that he's planning to teach what he called כתיבה and explained to be somewhat like Yiddish grammar.

My SIL created a "math" curriculum called הייליקע נומערן which teaches Torah arithmetic. For a while I think OT were buying her books, but I think that at a certain point they wanted her to modify it further based on their guidance, and after she put time and effort into that, I think they dropped it altogether.
Can you elaborate please? I didn't know that there are still such conservative fractions within Lubavitch, as in focusing that much in maintaining Yiddish and it's grammar, also in regards of learning no English at all. Is this the mainstream Talmid Torah in CH you're talking about? (I actually don't know Lubavitch too well)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2019, 01:19:05 AM »
Can you elaborate please? I didn't know that there are still such conservative fractions within Lubavitch, as in focusing that much in maintaining Yiddish and it's grammar, also in regards of learning no English at all. Is this the mainstream Talmid Torah in CH you're talking about? (I actually don't know Lubavitch too well)
In Lubavitch לימוד על טהרת הקודש is an important value. Some consider Yiddish important. It's somewhat of a dichotomy, on the one hand being the language of רבותינו נשיאינו and specifically of the Rebbe, while on the other hand it's definitely not the primary language of most, and the Rebbe clearly holds that Jewish studies should be taught in a language the kids understand.

If you want to read about the שיטה you can see http://www.chinuchtime.com/articles/Taharas-Hakodesh.zip you might also browse around his website for more.

Oholei Torah is the largest boys school in Crown Heights, and is considered mainstream.

ULY is the second mainstream school. I believe they have abandoned Yiddish a few years ago (as in no longer doing Chumash with טייטש, but rather learning and translating in English), but I also believe English curriculum is optional there.

Ohr Menachem and more recently Ohel Yosef Yitzchok are more "fringe" and extreme in טהרת הקודש and emphasis on Yiddish. I believe Cheder at the Ohel is also על טהרת הקודש, I'm not sure how much Yiddish is emphasized there.

On the other end of the spectrum is Lamplighters which IINM try to be a Montessori type Jewish School. It's definitely not mainstream, though I've heard of some "mainstream" families that might send kids who don't fit well into mainstream schools there.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 02:17:51 AM by ExGingi »
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2019, 01:48:16 AM »
In Lubavitch לימוד על טהרת הקודש is an important value. Some consider Yiddish important. It's somewhat of a dichotomy, on the one hand being the language of רבותינו נשיאינו and specifically of the Rebbe, while on the other hand it's definitely not the primary language of most, and the Rebbe clearly holds that Jewish studies should be taught in a language the kids understand.

If you want to read about the שיטה you can see http://www.chinuchtime.com/articles/Taharas-Hakodesh.zip you might also browse around his website for more.

Oholei Torah is the largest boys school in Crown Heights, and is considered mainstream. ULY is the second mainstream school. I believe they have abandoned Yiddish a few years ago, but I also believe English curriculum is optional there.

Ohr Menachem and more recently Ohel Yosef Yitzchok are more "fringe" and extreme in טהרת הקודש and emphasis on Yiddish. I believe Cheder at the Ohel is also על טהרת הקודש, I'm not sure how much Yiddish is emphasized there.

On the other end of the spectrum is Lamplighters which IINM try to be a Montessori type Jewish School. It's definitely not mainstream, though I've heard of some "mainstream" families that might send kids who don't fit well into mainstream schools there.
Thanks. Was very interesting to hear.
But this,
on the one hand being the language of רבותינו נשיאינו and specifically of the Rebbe,
Brings me to ask how did this happen,
while on the other hand it's definitely not the primary language of most,
I just have a great interest on how and on what level is Yiddish being utilized within all fractions of the frum Jews, as well of the future of it, (maybe a new thread worthy??) But as far as Lubavitch is concerned, I've always wondered, since Yiddish was the Rabbe's spoken language, and all the people's native language, how did English become the first language for most Lubavitchers, unlike the rest of all Cahssidish circles?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2019, 02:06:57 AM »
But as far as Lubavitch is concerned, I've always wondered, since Yiddish was the Rabbe's spoken language, and all the people's native language, how did English become the first language for most Lubavitchers, unlike the rest of all Cahssidish circles?

My short answer is that I don't know. I didn't grow up here until my teens (and only then did I actually acquire my Yiddish). When I was in Morristown in the 80s all shiurim were in Yiddish, though chavrusos were all learning in English (or Hebrew if they both happened to be Israeli) as were most one-on-one conversations with staff. I don't know exactly when the transition occurred, but I don't believe Morristown has shiurim in Yiddish nowadays.

Anecdotally, my two oldest kids started off speaking Yiddish at home. By the time my third was speaking, English became more common in our house, as that was the language the older kids spoke with friends and at preschool. My oldest son (second child) speaks to me in Yiddish. The rest use English.

That being said, IME Williamsburg flavor Yiddish is heavily adulterated. And my impression with every visit of mine to KJ is that English is slowly setting roots there too. Just look at the local advertising magazines. How many ads are in Yiddish vs English. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 02:13:19 AM by ExGingi »
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2019, 08:35:31 AM »
what period of if YTV are you referring to the 1970's?
late 80's early 90's
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2019, 08:37:36 AM »
While I have admittedly left the Yeshivish world, as someone in their 40's, I honestly didn't think that my TV, TT and CB friends were really that much different hashkafically.

In my mind, Landers is the compromise for MO kids that flipped out in Israel, wanted to go to Yeshiva full time but their parents want them to go to college.
Sounds like we traveled in the same circles. Same age and time frame.
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Offline Yonah

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2019, 08:37:45 AM »

Or just plain Harries.

Help me out, what is a "Harry"?

Offline Dr Moose

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2019, 08:40:35 AM »
Help me out, what is a "Harry"?
Anyone from Baltimore, Passiac etc
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Offline Yonah

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2019, 08:43:38 AM »
Sounds like we traveled in the same circles. Same age and time frame.

AFAIK, I was the only Yonah who was in my grade (and probably the next two down) at TV before I was, uh, asked to leave by a certain principal. AFAIK, he's no longer there, but I still joke that there is a plaque on the bench outside his office reserving my seat.

Offline Yonah

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2019, 08:54:33 AM »
In Lubavitch לימוד על טהרת הקודש is an important value. Some consider Yiddish important. It's somewhat of a dichotomy, on the one hand being the language of רבותינו נשיאינו and specifically of the Rebbe, while on the other hand it's definitely not the primary language of most, and the Rebbe clearly holds that Jewish studies should be taught in a language the kids understand.
Having gone to a Chabad Yeshiva for a while, and despite my meh Yiddish skills I can definitely appreciate some of the nuance that you find in the original Yiddish that some sichos lose in translation.

On your second point, if the Rebbe didn't believe in making Torah accessible, KEHOT and others wouldn't be publishing in all of those languages.

But to that point - a lot of my friends who are shluchim and/or grew up as the children of shluchim are exceedingly articulate and well read. Where/how does that happen? Is that exclusively the bastion of Bnei shluchim? (i.e. my parents run a university chabad house and I likely didn't go to OT for elementary school)?


My SIL created a "math" curriculum called הייליקע נומערן which teaches Torah arithmetic. For a while I think OT were buying her books, but I think that at a certain point they wanted her to modify it further based on their guidance, and after she put time and effort into that, I think they dropped it altogether.

I'm curious what does it cover? Gematria? Accounting for the missing numbers in biblical genealogy?

When I learned the first Perek of Baba Basra - it touched on construction and engineering (albeit biblically) does it include that? Sukkah as a geometry lesson? Units of Measure (i.e. How long do we believe a tefach and amah should be?).

I would love to do a course on biblical engineering!

Online CountValentine

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2019, 09:00:41 AM »
Did you start with CB or miles? I started with miles and switched heavily to CB
CB and never switched. Glad you seen the light.  :)
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2019, 09:13:15 AM »
CB and never switched. Glad you seen the light.  :)
Will you be doing seminars to fill in the void?
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Re: Yeshiva Education Models?
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2019, 09:29:42 AM »
Will you be doing seminars to fill in the void?
I will leave that to the Guru but don't think there is much of a void.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch