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Author Topic: Pesach Program Discussion Master Thread  (Read 196227 times)

Offline eyj

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #180 on: January 29, 2018, 02:45:11 PM »
Again you're judging tznius for a whole program from one picture of Ivanka in a snow suit?

I was actually impressed by how tznius and respectful she was at the program. She even attended davening with her infant. And when random people snuck into the hotel for selfies on YT she would explain quite nicely that she didn't do that on Shabbos/YT.

Your version of judaism is a sad one indeed. It's easy to cast aspersions without having been to a place, but you miss the entire part of Judaism that requires DL"Z. May Hashem not judge you as you judge others.

I would never judge others. I spent time in the five towns area and knew people who’s dress left much to be desired yet were giants in chessed and were spiritual growth oriented people. I once helped run a kapparos event and there were women in jeans shlugging kapparos- they wanted to be spiritually connected. I’m sure there are many ultra frum people who can’t come close to them. Do I know if I am better than Ivanka spiritually? I really don’t have the gaava to make that claim.

My point is simple: There is more to a program than it’s kosher food standards. For some it is an amazing, uplifting, spiritual experienc. But for someone who aspires to a high standard, and currently lives with that standard of observance, to choose a program based on its advertised high food kashrus standards may be making a mistake.

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #181 on: January 29, 2018, 02:50:26 PM »
I thought that's what mishing meant.
It is. Except for those unfamiliar with the Yiddish term. Would have been more familiar if it was used here, but for those (even who practice it but) that haven't heard the term at home, for a variety of reasons, the term "mishn" might not be familiar.

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #182 on: January 29, 2018, 02:52:42 PM »
Before Cy was widely available. Obviously the availability is a game changer
As is evident in the changing languages of his tshuvos
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #183 on: January 29, 2018, 03:03:42 PM »
As is evident in the changing languages of his tshuvos
So do you think if the question were asked today (if one could even imagine that the question would have been asked in today's environment), he wouldn't have given the hetter?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline henche

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #184 on: January 29, 2018, 03:10:24 PM »
So do you think if the question were asked today (if one could even imagine that the question would have been asked in today's environment), he wouldn't have given the hetter?

Hey hey, not all of us live in Brooklyn.

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #185 on: January 29, 2018, 03:13:22 PM »
Hey hey, not all of us live in Brooklyn.
Did I ask you?

And besides, last time I looked at a map of the USA, it said Brooklyn all across.  ;D
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline eyj

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #186 on: January 29, 2018, 07:17:12 PM »
Again you're judging tznius for a whole program from one picture of Ivanka in a snow suit?


It actually wasn’t a snap judgement from one picture; it was based on a google search of various images and videos that participants have posted from several years of the Pesach on the Mountain program, and not from one picture of Ivanka. Certainly nothing unexpected, but there is what to be said in terms of tznius. Please be DL”Z  :)

Again, not a judgement of any participants, who are probably wonderful people who are gaining from their participation in the program, merely an observation that the atmosphere might not be appropriate for some regardless of the hashgacha....

Offline mochjas

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #187 on: January 29, 2018, 07:30:23 PM »
It actually wasn’t a snap judgement from one picture; it was based on a google search of various images and videos that participants have posted from several years of the Pesach on the Mountain program, and not from one picture of Ivanka. Certainly nothing unexpected, but there is what to be said in terms of tznius. Please be DL”Z  :)

Again, not a judgement of any participants, who are probably wonderful people who are gaining from their participation in the program, merely an observation that the atmosphere might not be appropriate for some regardless of the hashgacha....
its freaking freezing. How badly could they have been dressed?

Offline gingyguy

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #188 on: January 29, 2018, 07:45:03 PM »
its freaking freezing. How badly could they have been dressed?
without having any idea of the pictures that @eyj is referring to ill just say that  tznius does not mean uncovered but hidden . hence it has nothing to do with the weather
if someones is dressed or acting ostentatiously by default that is a tznius issue
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline eyj

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #189 on: January 29, 2018, 08:00:39 PM »
without having any idea of the pictures that @eyj is referring to ill just say that  tznius does not mean uncovered but hidden . hence it has nothing to do with the weather
if someones is dressed or acting ostentatiously by default that is a tznius issue

I was referring to the plain and simple usage that is the vernacular of the word tznius- just referring to some attendees attired in a way that does not cover areas that must be covered and that a man is not supposed to see- hence the less than Glatt Kosher environment.

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #190 on: January 29, 2018, 08:06:55 PM »
I would guess that he looks at it the same as someone giving a hechsher on cholov stam even though they don't use it. At one point an RC at the OU told me that every RC at the OU only used cholov yisroel. Here too he "doesn't mish" and therefore wouldn't eat at the hotel even though he feels it is reliably kosher or simply that he, like just about everyone else, feels that there is no way that a hotel can meet the standards of home.
at least in the past 25 years that hasn't been true. I suspect it has never been true.

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #191 on: January 29, 2018, 08:12:55 PM »
IME it's quite difficult for someone who is a machmir in general to certify a week long hotel program and not compromise on something. I do know someone who doesn't use the hotel kitchen at all but rather uses mobile field kitchens the entire pesach. That still leaves issues like bedikas Toila'im, etc. This topic is quite a long conversation...

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #192 on: January 29, 2018, 08:54:45 PM »
at least in the past 25 years that hasn't been true. I suspect it has never been true.
That is what I was told by one of the higher ups but it may have been almost all or something like that. I can think of some who probably don't.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #193 on: January 29, 2018, 10:04:49 PM »
I asked an RC at OU tonight. He said that they have no policy against certifying a Pesach program, but that they have a laundry list of requirements (not all strictly kashrus related) that no program wants to commit to.

Offline Sport

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #194 on: January 29, 2018, 10:07:11 PM »
I asked an RC at OU tonight. He said that they have no policy against certifying a Pesach program, but that they have a laundry list of requirements (not all strictly kashrus related) that no program wants to commit to.
I would love to see that list, anyway you can get a hold of it from this rc?

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #195 on: January 29, 2018, 10:09:33 PM »
I would love to see that list, anyway you can get a hold of it from this rc?
I don't know if it's a literal list. He mentioned offhand they're have to have a shabbos elevator, no kashering dishwashers, something about hachana issues. That's all I remember.

Offline Sport

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #196 on: January 29, 2018, 10:14:39 PM »
I don't know if it's a literal list. He mentioned offhand they're have to have a shabbos elevator, no kashering dishwashers, something about hachana issues. That's all I remember.
Interesting, the ou doesnt allow kashering of dishwashers?
Also, why do they care if there's a shabbos elevator if anything I would think they'd be opposed to having one?

Offline Dave321

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #197 on: January 29, 2018, 10:16:07 PM »
Did you ask him how he can eat at a place without knowing more about the hechsher?

i want to see you walk up to him at of the blue, and (at least 25 years his junior) berate him for not looking into the hashgocha... its  easy to bash from behind a computer....
I don't know if it's a literal list. He mentioned offhand they're have to have a shabbos elevator, no kashering dishwashers, something about hachana issues. That's all I remember.

having been to multiple programs, I can say that hachana is a huge issue all programs struggle with. try to get food for 1000+ people ready in an hour. good luck

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #198 on: January 29, 2018, 10:22:41 PM »
having been to multiple programs, I can say that hachana is a huge issue all programs struggle with. try to get food for 1000+ people ready in an hour. good luck
Yeah I guess. But what's the kula that they all rely on for this?

Offline Sport

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #199 on: January 29, 2018, 10:25:38 PM »
Yeah I guess. But what's the kula that they all rely on for this?
Who says there's a kula, experience and proper planning goes a long way in running a smooth program.