Pesach Program Discussion Master Thread

[Moshe Green]

Lot of great viewpoints here:
From R' Avigdor Miller - All out against
Yelped pointing out that there are very good reasons to go
And MevinYavin who pointed out that his Rosh Chabura went but "wasn't Zocheh" make at home.

Here's a few great Headlines podcasts about the topic:

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/3621-%e2%80%93-show-313-%e2%80%93-pesach-hotels-g-d-sent-g-d-forbid-or-somewhere-in-between/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/4117-is-you-pesach-hotel-really-kosher-lpesach-hosted-by-rabbi-elyada-goldwicht/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/4619-peasach-show-should-you-go-to-a-hotel-what-should-your-concerns-be-before-you-go-the-beer-controversy-resolved-quinoa-kitniyos/

[mlardi]

So, he released now a supposed scam email from 4 weeks ago, asking to send payment to a new account.

wow

[yelped]

wow

?

This is very typical, and anyone who has any business wiring money knows the ABCs of verbal verification before wiring money (especially in the case of account information change, and especially with so many red flags).

Don't know any details here, just saying that falling for this scam is not really an excuse... Hope he has insurance that will cover him for this, don't know if there are any that cover negligence.

[mlardi]

?

This is very typical, and anyone who has any business wiring money knows the ABCs of verbal verification before wiring money (especially in the case of account information change, and especially with so many red flags).

Don't know any details here, just saying that falling for this scam is not really an excuse... Hope he has insurance that will cover him for this, don't know if there are any that cover negligence.

With you %100 but its crazy how people wont realize the extra character or don't even bother to check on a email address

[yelped]

With you %100 but its crazy how people wont realize the extra character or don't even bother to check on a email address

Or read the email, or follow the ABCs of wiring money.

[gubevo18]

Or read the email, or follow the ABCs of wiring money.

or maybe . . . just maybe . . . this never actually happened? WHo knows - I guess we should give the benefit of the doubt but the fact that they waited almost a month to tell people smells very fishy.

[Dan]

or maybe . . . just maybe . . . this never actually happened? WHo knows - I guess we should give the benefit of the doubt but the fact that they waited almost a month to tell people smells very fishy.

Let's assume he wired the funds to them in error.
How do you know when he realized the error?

[gubevo18]

Let's assume he wired the funds to them in error.
How do you know when he realized the error?

Fair point. I would assume he paid them then because there was some payment due then. And I would imagine the hotel would have reached out earlier had they not received payment. But yes, it could be the case.

[Euclid]

or maybe . . . just maybe . . . this never actually happened? WHo knows - I guess we should give the benefit of the doubt but the fact that they waited almost a month to tell people smells very fishy.

The domain was registered almost exactly 4 weeks ago. Story seems to check out

[aygart]

Let's assume he wired the funds to them in error.
How do you know when he realized the error?

And even then it is reasonable to allow him some time to try and resolve it quietly.

[daybyday]

So, he released now a supposed scam email from 4 weeks ago, asking to send payment to a new account.
Proof that he fell for the scam?
What happened in the past 4 weeks?

Some scams these days are very sophisticated and it seems likely that the owner of this program fell for one of these. The scammers had all the info and they gave a believable story which he fell for. If this was actually the case it is most likely due to the hotel emails being compromised or this guy's own email being compromised.

I find it hard to believe that this guy created a bs program with so many known guests with plans to scam everyone and cancel just a couple of days before Pesach.
Anything is possible but doesn't seem likely.

[Yehuda57]

Anyone who thinks they wouldn't fall for such a fishing scam just hasn't been targeted for one or has already fallen for it without realizing it. People who wire larger sums of money every day have fallen for these. 

[avromie7]

Anyone who thinks they wouldn't fall for such a fishing scam just hasn't been targeted for one or has already fallen for it without realizing it. People who wire larger sums of money every day have fallen for these.

This is true, but proper safeguards would definitely have stopped this. Rule #1 should be phone call verification for any wire to a new account.

[Abebee]

You always need to be dan lkaf zechus.

However if the wire was big enough to put him out of business, I think anyone reasonable would confirm the wire especially if there is a new account etc.

[Abebee]

I find it hard to believe that this guy created a bs program with so many known guests with plans to scam everyone and cancel just a couple of days before Pesach.
Anything is possible but doesn't seem likely.

More likely wanting it to be a legit awesome program and as it got closer realizing that he didnt sell enough rooms to cover his cost.

[daybyday]

The fake domain was registered a little less than a month ago with some random address in Iceland. That does seem to check out as a classic scam.
Would the program owner register a fake domain a month ago in order to cover up his own scam? Seems very unlikely.

Domain info: https://www.whois.com/whois/claridger.com
Address for domain: Kalkofnsvegur 2, 101 Reykjavík, Iceland

[mochjas]

We should really open up a DDF detective agency... Some of yall are good at this stuff

[4yourinfo]

?

This is very typical, and anyone who has any business wiring money knows the ABCs of verbal verification before wiring money (especially in the case of account information change, and especially with so many red flags).

Don't know any details here, just saying that falling for this scam is not really an excuse... Hope he has insurance that will cover him for this, don't know if there are any that cover negligence.

Some people run their businesses email / text only maybe a warning to people to start talking etc.. I Recently listed items on facebook marketplaces - scammers only want to text etc. speaking blows their cover...

[Yehuda57]

You always need to be dan lkaf zechus.

However if the wire was big enough to put him out of business, I think anyone reasonable would confirm the wire especially if there is a new account etc.

You think. Until it happens to you or someone you know. I don't know this guy or this program, and I have no knowledge of whether or not he was scammed. But I do know that many eminently reasonable people have been scammed for greater sums of money than this.

[sillypainter]

Some people run their businesses email / text only maybe a warning to people to start talking etc.. I Recently listed items on facebook marketplaces - scammers only want to text etc. speaking blows their cover...

Exactly. BIGGEST suspicion if somebody does NOT have the time to talk especially when amounts are bigger.