Pesach Program Discussion Master Thread

[Dan]

Rabbi Marburger?

Oy.

[YitzyS]

It's fine - you already did. No need to get all haughty

I thought a few times before I posted that.

My goal with that was not to say bad, but to point out that everyone seems to be bashing his story, but I think that he didn't have a chance to properly present it. (I have no idea if it will hold up if told properly, but that interview was in no way comprehensive.)

I may have posted some things that went a little over the line, and thanks for pointing it out. I'm going to amend it to clean it up a little.

[Yehuda57]

I thought a few times before I posted that.

My goal with that was not to say bad, but to point out that everyone seems to be bashing his story, but I think that he didn't have a chance to properly present it. (I have no idea if it will hold up if told properly, but that interview was in no way comprehensive.)

I may have posted some things that went a little over the line, and thanks for pointing it out. I'm going to amend it to clean it up a little.

You didn't watch the same interview as anyone else.

[YitzyS]

You didn't watch the same interview as anyone else.

Go back and see how many times he was interrupted when he was in middle of saying specific details of the story.

[4yourinfo]

Wild interview.

-HG point blank refused to offer an apology or show any remorse when asked by the DansDealer judge to do so. In general, he refused to answer questions without diverting blame on social media evils.
-HG never asked for any refund from the hotel or vendors!
-HG only forwarded the scammers email to the FBI email on 4/19.
-ZB did about as good of a job controlling the interview as Chris Wallace did over the first 2020 Trump-Biden debate.

My take - Its pretty clear the guy runs hotel programs with no capital - the only way to do it is you push off vendors and hotel payments as much as possible until money comes in. You need to be of a certain carefree personality to run a business like this.. Once you realize this pretty much all the strange things get answered. #1 if you've been playing games with the hotel all along so it is going to take time to realize that there is a REAL issue of payments happening.  I am not convinced he made too many payments to any vendors he clearly seems to pay last minute.. why would vendors give back down payments - they had huge loses making a ton of food not being able to sell it. Hotel is the same thing you blacked out 2 weeks of reservations you aren't entitled or getting back the couple of payments..
I want to know -
 Why doesn't he go after the hotel and say it was their system that was hacked?
Also, lets say he scammed some people in the past- Does that means he can't be the victim of a phishing scam?  All those scam stories are irrelevant to him getting scammed. He showed one transfer because there are people doubting the entire scam - he probably is not interested in showing every single email - his business operation looks pretty sloppy and from the few emails he did release he showed a ton of sloppiness..
One more thing how about we speak to vendors of his past "successful" programs and find out when he makes his orders and payments - lets compare apples to apples.

[Yehuda57]

Go back and see how many times he was interrupted when he was in middle of saying specific details of the story.

I already said it was a poor interview, but HG did every classic move of a liar. He kept jumping from topic to topic, laced almost every statement with a personal attack on someone else, never for a second took any responsibility for any aspect of the story - even the negligence for getting phished, and even when he did get to some sort of point in telling the story it has long meaningless intros.

He may be the victim of wire fraud, he may not be. I don't know. I don't think it makes that much of a difference. There was absolutely no way he was actually going to host a program. It was a sham.

[4yourinfo]

I already said it was a poor interview, but HG did every classic move of a liar. He kept jumping from topic to topic, laced almost every statement with a personal attack on someone else, never for a second took any responsibility for any aspect of the story - even the negligence for getting phished, and even when he did get to some sort of point in telling the story it has long meaningless intros.

He may be the victim of wire fraud, he may not be. I don't know. I don't think it makes that much of a difference. There was absolutely no way he was actually going to host a program. It was a sham.

He had programs in the past and he was all of the above - your conclusion is wrong

[JMHO]

He canceled and lost everyone's money over a 25k loss?

Agree, I'm curious if there was more... there are so many open ends here...

If only Zev would have been able to log in to HG computer (like he asked!) and show us everything
Could have cleared up so much, what a shame...

[Yehuda57]

He had programs in the past and he was all of the above - your conclusion is wrong

He's had numerous programs that didn't pan out, which he admitted to, again, without taking responsibility and while blaming others. Even the ones that did pan out, he stiffed vendors, employees, and investors. He has hidden behind LLCs going bust more than once in the past and (I believe) created a new company for this program.

It seems clear he had already breached contracts and wasn't paying before the supposed wire fraud.

[4yourinfo]

He's had numerous programs that didn't pan out, which he admitted to, again, without taking responsibility and while blaming others. Even the ones that did pan out, he stiffed vendors, employees, and investors. He has hidden behind LLCs going bust more than once in the past and (I believe) created a new company for this program.

It seems clear he had already breached contracts and wasn't paying before the supposed wire fraud.

That's how he rolls - definitely not a proof that it was a sham

[Dan]

Pure conjecture, but...

-His MO is to push off bills to the last minute, this led to the hotel claiming a breach in contract as far back as January.
-He fell way behind in paying the hotel.
-There was a sophisticated phishing attempt that involved gaining access to one party's emails OR he manufactured a phishing attempt as a cover up. Either way, we haven't seen anything to show money was actually sent.
-The hotel cancelled the program when payments were far short of the requirements.
-Rather than admit that, he blamed the cancellation on the phishing attempt.

[Dan]

Now, is there toeles to posting material backing this up here or DDMS, or no?

[Definitions]

I never took ddms to be a gossip website. I don't think it's appropriate content for the main website.

[Dan]

I never took ddms to be a gossip website. I don't think it's appropriate content for the main website.

Hence my question, is there toeles that justifies it?

A. To avoid going to his future programs. Turns out that he advertised in 2020 and stiffed us despite repeated attempts to collect. We caught that in 2021 and turned him down. But he changed the program name and email, so we didn't catch that this time.

B. To be aware of how sophisticated a phishing attack can be.

C. For people to have an avenue to get their money back, initially by trying via beis din or by getting a heter arkaos. After all, some may have signed up via his DD ad and I do feel awful about that, though he advertised pretty much everywhere this year.

[Yehuda25]

Hence my question, is there toeles that justifies it?

A. To avoid going to his future programs. Turns out that he advertised in 2020 and stiffed us despite repeated attempts to collect. We caught that in 2021 and turned him down. But he changed the program name and email, so we didn't catch that this time.

B. To be aware of how sophisticated a phishing attack can be.

C. For people to have an avenue to get their money back, initially by trying via beis din or by getting a heter arkaos. After all, some may have signed up via his DD ad, though he advertised pretty much everywhere this year.

I'm no rabbi, but he is likely not the only one out there doing similar, and if not for the outcry this time he'd be still going. Also unfortunately there have been (esp recently) many ponzis/affinity type scams in our communities, yet everyone doesnt want to publicize it, is that the torah way? I don't know. I would think at the very least a PSA without identifying info is in order, but more of a general PSA about new unvetted programs etc. Victims here almost certainly will not get their money back, I wonder if any programs take cc"s, even for 3% would be a bargain in terms of the insurance provided for such situations.

[Dan]

I'm no rabbi, but he is likely not the only one out there doing similar, and if not for the outcry this time he'd be still going. Also unfortunately there have been (esp recently) many ponzis/affinity type scams in our communities, yet everyone doesnt want to publicize it, is that the torah way? I don't know. I would think at the very least a PSA without identifying info is in order, but more of a general PSA about new unvetted programs etc. Victims here almost certainly will not get their money back, I wonder if any programs take cc"s, even for 3% would be a bargain in terms of the insurance provided for such situations.

I don't think any programs take CC, but CMIIW.

He ran programs in 2021 and 2022, so it's not exactly new...

[Yehuda57]

That's how he rolls - definitely not a proof that it was a sham

"how he rolls" is literally a sham. See:

Turns out that he advertised in 2020 and stiffed us despite repeated attempts to collect. We caught that in 2021 and turned him down. But he changed the program name and email, so we didn't catch that this time.

[amaaretz]

Simple question:

When presented with evidence that someone impersonated *them* and diverted *their funds*, the Claridge - instead of spareheading the subsequent investigation - sent HG on his way?

Have a great day.

[Dan]

Simple question:

When presented with evidence that someone impersonated *them* and diverted *their funds*, the Claridge - instead of spareheading the subsequent investigation - sent HG on his way?

Have a great day.

If he never sent any money to the phishers then there is no evidence other than a sophisticated phishing attempt. Either way, he was over half a million dollar in arrears by that point and the hotel had moved on due to the breached contract.

[amaaretz]

If he never sent any money to the phishers then there is no evidence other than an attempt. Either way, he was over half a million dollar in arrears by that point and the hotel had moved on.

The question assumes HG's narrative is truthful, and you answer assumes it isn't.
(And you'd be correct.)


Edit:
He explicitly told the judge that he hired counsel. I'd love to know which attorney allows a client to conduct themselves as HG has done in the last 2 weeks.

(He hasn't hired counsel.)

There's really not much further to discuss.