Pesach Program Discussion Master Thread

[VacationLover]

This is happening?

IDK. I think people should give him a break. If he did business wrongdoings there is a way to deal with it. But bash him publicly and call him names isn't fair IMO. I just heard he is in his third marriage!! He obviously is messed up. No need to force him into lie detector test when the results won't help anyone.

[yelped]

That's self explanatory. When your company is being impersonated and your finds are being diverted, you're all in on the investigation. You're not dismissive.

That's not how it actually works in the real world.

Don't forget, this is not exactly a case where they have a relationship with this vendor. There is no trust here in the first place.

[amaaretz]

That's not how it actually works in the real world.

Don't forget, this is not exactly a case where they have a relationship with this vendor. There is no trust here in the first place.

I don't see the relevance. And I don't believe you'd be disinterested if the source of this information was someone with whom you've had no relationship.
Your company is being impersonated and your finds are being diverted. There's surely no need to explain why you'd be invested in that investigation.

[Dan]

Oh, our funds are being diverted, that's terrible! Can you please send proof of that wire?

But the mean people on social media! Lashon hara! Rechilus! Motzei shem ra! Reshoim arurim!

Uh, OK then.

[zale]

Oh, our funds are being diverted, that's terrible! Can you please send proof of that wire?

But the mean people on social media! Lashon hara! Rechilus! Motzei shem ra! Reshoim arurim!

Uh, OK then.

... I was by the internet asifa, and they said that if you own a smartphone you are a Rasha!

[Willie]

Why did he not take the 10k from the south africa trip and refund clients/pay vendors from years ago?

[4yourinfo]

I don't see the relevance. And I don't believe you'd be disinterested if the source of this information was someone with whom you've had no relationship.
Your company is being impersonated and your finds are being diverted. There's surely no need to explain why you'd be invested in that investigation.

Which makes me wonder why doesn't he try to blame the phishing on the hotel - someone is accessing their emails and it started from them?

[Dan]

Which makes me wonder why doesn't he try to blame the phishing on the hotel - someone is accessing their emails and it started from them?

Who says it's the hotel's email that got hacked and not HG's email?

[amaaretz]

Which makes me wonder why doesn't he try to blame the phishing on the hotel - someone is accessing their emails and it started from them?

Although it's not consistent with what he said on Brenner episode 1, ever since then he's said that it came from a different domain, thus implicating a third party and asserting that they are impersonating the hotel.
And taking the hotels money.
And that the hotel said "goodbye Heshy, we don't care that we're being impersonated and that our finds are being diverted."

[zale]

IDK. I think people should give him a break. If he did business wrongdoings there is a way to deal with it. But bash him publicly and call him names isn't fair IMO. I just heard he is in his third marriage!! He obviously is messed up. No need to force him into lie detector test when the results won't help anyone.

Agreed - no need to call him names and no need to bash him.

However there is very much need to warn people about him. If left unchecked, he will certainly try this again.

If he did business wrongdoings there is a way to deal with it

No, there really isn't. Beis Din can't enforce payment. Civil court can only enforce if there are assets in his name, which there aren't. There is little or no recourse for the people that got scammed other than to try to force a settlement out of him in criminal court.

It's time to start having Rachmanus on the victims rather than on the perpetrator.

[Afrages6]

Pure conjecture, but...

-His MO is to push off bills to the last minute, this led to the hotel claiming a breach in contract as far back as January.
-He fell way behind in paying the hotel.
-There was a sophisticated phishing attempt that involved gaining access to one party's emails OR he manufactured a phishing attempt as a cover up. Either way, no money was actually sent.
-The hotel cancelled the program when payments were far short of the requirements.
-Rather than admit that, he blamed the cancellation on the phishing attempt.

I have heard first hand from a big vendor that they told HG they will not process the order this year unless he sent a cashiers check upfront - he never replied to the vendor again.

[Dan]

Does anyone have his past bankruptcy filings?

[Dan]

So who are Simon Youngwirth totallybookedusa@gmail.com and Joel contactsmemo@gmail.com and what's their connection to the program?

[Lurker]

Hence my question, is there toeles that justifies it?

A. To avoid going to his future programs. Turns out that he advertised in 2020 and stiffed us despite repeated attempts to collect. We caught that in 2021 and turned him down. But he changed the program name and email, so we didn't catch that this time.

B. To be aware of how sophisticated a phishing attack can be.

C. For people to have an avenue to get their money back, initially by trying via beis din or by getting a heter arkaos. After all, some may have signed up via his DD ad and I do feel awful about that, though he advertised pretty much everywhere this year.

A post can be made accomplishing your goals without getting into details, which at this point is pretty much all conjecture and/or circumstantial evidence.

A: say every year there are issues which come up with programs, for example, this particular program this year. Give a PSA to look into the details of the program including the organizers, and give some tips on what to look for (issues with past programs, etc.).

B: get into phishing attacks, with some tips on wire fraud from @yelped or other experts. Things to look for, how to avoid them, etc.

C: tips on recourse if readers were victims of shady programs.

IMO, anything more than that dips into territory DD has usually stayed away from, and the toeles can be accomplished without crossing those lines.

[torashaman]

So who are Simon Youngwirth totallybookedusa@gmail.com and what's their connection to the program?

https://www.alignable.com/borough-park-ny/totally-booked-usa/bookkeeping
his bookkeeper/accountant

[yelped]

I don't see the relevance. And I don't believe you'd be disinterested if the source of this information was someone with whom you've had no relationship.
Your company is being impersonated and your finds are being diverted. There's surely no need to explain why you'd be invested in that investigation.

No major investigation necessary. All they have to do is make sure there was no unauthorized access to any of their email accounts on the chain. Once they do that, they know that it was some other party on the chain and nothing to do with them. In a normal vendor/client relationship they work together to track down the perpetrator and money. In this case, the hotel had no reason to talk to him as it's a total waste of their time as he owed them thousands and had no intention of paying.

IMO, anything more than that dips into territory DD has usually stayed away from, and the toeles can be accomplished without crossing those lines.

Sun games was a notable exception, but that was more of an active, insidious scam that was being perpuated.

[amaaretz]

No major investigation necessary. All they have to do is make sure there was no unauthorized access to any of their email accounts on the chain. Once they do that, they know that it was some other party on the chain and nothing to do with them. In a normal vendor/client relationship they work together to track down the perpetrator and money. In this case, the hotel had no reason to talk to him as it's a total waste of their time as he owed them thousands and had no intention of paying.

The relationship between them and the party that brings this to their attention is irrelevant. That party is merely a messenger.

If HG confronted the hotel with evidence that the hotel was being impersonated, *to their clients*, and that their funds are being diverted, the hotel would not blow him off as he claims they did. They would sparehead the subsequent investigation.

This is self evident, and respectfully I'm taken aback at the attempts to pigeonhole a justification for the hotel's alleged lack of interest. It's absurd.

[VacationLover]

A post can be made accomplishing your goals without getting into details, which at this point is pretty much all conjecture and/or circumstantial evidence.

A: say every year there are issues which come up with programs, for example, this particular program this year. Give a PSA to look into the details of the program including the organizers, and give some tips on what to look for (issues with past programs, etc.).

B: get into phishing attacks, with some tips on wire fraud from @yelped or other experts. Things to look for, how to avoid them, etc.

C: tips on recourse if readers were victims of shady programs.

IMO, anything more than that dips into territory DD has usually stayed away from, and the toeles can be accomplished without crossing those lines.

D: a warning about כשרות at some programs.

[yelped]

The relationship between them and the party that brings this to their attention is irrelevant. That party is merely a messenger.

If HG confronted the hotel with evidence that the hotel was being impersonated, *to their clients*, and that their funds are being diverted, the hotel would not blow him off as he claims they did. They would sparehead the subsequent investigation.

This is self evident, and respectfully I'm taken aback at the attempts to pigeonhole a justification for the hotel's alleged lack of interest. It's absurd.

♻️

[amaaretz]

Recycled in its original form - unaddressed.