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Author Topic: Pesach Program Discussion Master Thread  (Read 195964 times)

Offline elit

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #160 on: January 29, 2018, 01:05:09 PM »
Lets not go overboard here.
obviously i was talking with a little hyperbole but there are places that because of the kashrus concerns ate more machmir then one would be at home. for example the place I know well buys all prechecked / bug free lettuce because they don't trust the mashgichin to properly wash and check hundreds of heads of lettuce 

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #161 on: January 29, 2018, 01:09:23 PM »
obviously i was talking with a little hyperbole but there are places that because of the kashrus concerns ate more machmir then one would be at home. for example the place I know well buys all prechecked / bug free lettuce because they don't trust the mashgichin to properly wash and check hundreds of heads of lettuce 
Is pre-checked better or worse that someone who knows what he is doing checking one head a home?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yammer

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #162 on: January 29, 2018, 01:13:30 PM »
That is straight up baloney
This is what I heard. But it definitely could be untrue.

Did Reb Moishe ever eat CS?

Offline henche

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #163 on: January 29, 2018, 01:20:59 PM »

Did Reb Moishe ever eat CS?

Did he ever serve someone CS?

I don't think it's quite the same to publish a teshuva saying its muttar but a baal nefesh should be machmir (is that the language?), and then not personally eat it--as to serve it to people but not personally eat it.

ETA: If this is already fully litigated on ddf, someone just post the link and we can take it there if we actually care to (but won't)

Offline eyj

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #164 on: January 29, 2018, 01:32:01 PM »


+1

nope once again you're painting everything with a broad brush that just isnt true

I am not referring to every hotel out there, just to the program in Whistler which was touted as having a very high standard . It it universal to all pesach programs. Of course not. Is it prevelant? Likely. Is it a problem on kosher cruises? It seems to be a real issue. Look at the pictures of some of the clientele at the Pesach on the Mountain program some of which are in the articles linked above and tell me the tznius is up to standards. Do a search of kosher cruises and tznius standards and read the comments on various sites of what the scene is like especially on board during the days at sea. What part of that is painting with a broad brush?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 01:36:51 PM by eyj »

Offline Redbull3

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #165 on: January 29, 2018, 01:36:04 PM »
Went to Gateways thrice in the last 6 years. Had an enjoyable time. (Only gripe is the dairy lunch on Chalamoyde. I try to be fleishig from morning till night on Yuntif)
heart disease much?

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #166 on: January 29, 2018, 01:40:02 PM »
That is true, but if it was a verifiable fact that things were as reported, the DL”Z would have been of a different nature, perhaps that it was better to serve matzah because some of the clientele would otherwise eat Chametz , or not have the exposure to an environment that they could grow from etc. This would have been DL”Z yet would not have been a ringing endorsement of the kashrus standards.

I was going to leave it at that, but seeing as to how the experience is being cast as being lechatchilah and perhaps more kosher than ones own kitchen, I would like to be clear that there is much to say beyond the kashrus of the food, and I’ll just discuss one aspect. The mode of dress of some of the clientele clearly leaves much to be desired, making spending Passover in such a place bidieved for clear halachic reasons other than the food. ( There may be reasons that upon carefull consultation with ones rabbi would perhaps make it lechatchila for some despite this- illness, family, kiruv, etc.) It is not somewhere I, or many others I know would consider a kosher environment, since kashrus extends to all areas of Halacha.

The Rabbis who supervise these events are obviously doing it for the mitvah of supplying kosher food, parnassa,etc. and not because it is the ideal environment they would prefer that they or their families would want to be in. (Rabbi Leibel Miller does kosher cruises as well- they are a small kosher part of regular cruise ships and have their own tznius compromises as is well known). Obviously a cursory glance through many of the trip reports etc. on DD will make it clear that many of the destinations discussed on DD have significant halachic issues regardless of how kosher the food is. At one point I had to be in Miami and went to one of the attractions discussed on the forums that seemed pretty innocuous, but quickly realized that I made a huge mistake tznius wise and had to leave.

My error was specifically in extrapolating from the other aspects to the  kashrus standards of the food when I should have been DL”Z in this area.

Which programs have you attended?

Offline elit

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #167 on: January 29, 2018, 01:40:25 PM »
I am not referring to every hotel out there, just to the program in Whistler which was touted as having a very high standard . It it universal to all pesach programs. Of course not. Is it prevelant? Likely. Is it a problem on kosher cruises? It seems to be a real issue. Look at the pictures of some of the clientele at the Pesach on the Mountain program some of which are in the articles linked above and tell me the tznius is up to standards. Do a search of kosher cruises and tznius standards and read the comments on various sites of what the scene is like especially on board during the days at sea. What part of that is painting with a broad brush?
I didn't realize you were only talking about that specific hotel. sorry.

Offline thaber

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #168 on: January 29, 2018, 01:51:30 PM »




Did Reb Moishe ever eat CS?

I have no idea, but in his house the only CY was a small bottle per week for him

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #169 on: January 29, 2018, 01:53:02 PM »
I am not referring to every hotel out there, just to the program in Whistler which was touted as having a very high standard . It it universal to all pesach programs. Of course not. Is it prevelant? Likely. Is it a problem on kosher cruises? It seems to be a real issue. Look at the pictures of some of the clientele at the Pesach on the Mountain program some of which are in the articles linked above and tell me the tznius is up to standards. Do a search of kosher cruises and tznius standards and read the comments on various sites of what the scene is like especially on board during the days at sea. What part of that is painting with a broad brush?
Again you're judging tznius for a whole program from one picture of Ivanka in a snow suit?

I was actually impressed by how tznius and respectful she was at the program. She even attended davening with her infant. And when random people snuck into the hotel for selfies on YT she would explain quite nicely that she didn't do that on Shabbos/YT.

Your version of judaism is a sad one indeed. It's easy to cast aspersions without having been to a place, but you miss the entire part of Judaism that requires DL"Z. May Hashem not judge you as you judge others.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #170 on: January 29, 2018, 01:55:41 PM »
Which programs have you attended?
Preconceived Notions R' Us.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline henche

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #171 on: January 29, 2018, 01:56:40 PM »
Preconceived Notions R' Us.

I didn't love that one, but it was exactly as I expected.

Offline Dan

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #172 on: January 29, 2018, 01:58:33 PM »
Did he ever serve someone CS?

I don't think it's quite the same to publish a teshuva saying its muttar but a baal nefesh should be machmir (is that the language?), and then not personally eat it--as to serve it to people but not personally eat it.

ETA: If this is already fully litigated on ddf, someone just post the link and we can take it there if we actually care to (but won't)
It's a strange concept, but just because someone has a minhag not to eat someone else's food on Pesach, doesn't mean they can't make money selling their food to people without that minhag.
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Offline henche

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #173 on: January 29, 2018, 02:11:49 PM »
It's a strange concept, but just because someone has a minhag not to eat someone else's food on Pesach, doesn't mean they can't make money selling their food to people without that minhag.

I'll grant that the "mishing" minhag, and various other family minhagim (don't eat unpeelable vegetables, don't eat chicken, etc) throw a monkey wrench into my theory. 

I don't know these ppl personally.

I'm sure some programs are run by non-mishers who think that their own program is mishing (and I won't question how they apply their minhag, although I'd have thought it's more akin to your own kitchen where you hired people to cook for you, which I assume mishers are ok with.)  And I'm sure some are run by people who don't eat tomatoes, but don't want to have a program with no tomatoes.

But it seems like the pesach hotel world is full of people running programs, and attending and allowing the program to advertise based on them, and then they don't eat from it because they don't want to eat from a program at all.

Suppose you found out that all the ppl you'd seen eating at the Waldorf Jerusalem were actually being given free stays to pretend they trusted the kashrus, and were eating homebrought food.

Offline Dan

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #174 on: January 29, 2018, 02:25:02 PM »
I'll grant that the "mishing" minhag, and various other family minhagim (don't eat unpeelable vegetables, don't eat chicken, etc) throw a monkey wrench into my theory. 

I don't know these ppl personally.

I'm sure some programs are run by non-mishers who think that their own program is mishing (and I won't question how they apply their minhag, although I'd have thought it's more akin to your own kitchen where you hired people to cook for you, which I assume mishers are ok with.)  And I'm sure some are run by people who don't eat tomatoes, but don't want to have a program with no tomatoes.

But it seems like the pesach hotel world is full of people running programs, and attending and allowing the program to advertise based on them, and then they don't eat from it because they don't want to eat from a program at all.

Suppose you found out that all the ppl you'd seen eating at the Waldorf Jerusalem were actually being given free stays to pretend they trusted the kashrus, and were eating homebrought food.
The minhag of not eating out on Pesach has nothing to do with peeling or gebroktz. It's just not eating out, period.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 02:57:12 PM by Dan »
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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #175 on: January 29, 2018, 02:38:53 PM »

I have no idea, but in his house the only CY was a small bottle per week for him
This might open up a can of worms, but what period are we talking about.

My FIL recounts that when he was young there was only one CY brand and it was simply disgusting. The availability of CY (even just milk, let alone all the products) was very different back in the day. Would the attitude (sha'ala, respone, etc.) have been much different if the availability of CY was as it is today?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline thaber

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #176 on: January 29, 2018, 02:40:31 PM »
This might open up a can of worms, but what period are we talking about.

My FIL recounts that when he was young there was only one CY brand and it was simply disgusting. The availability of CY (even just milk, let alone all the products) was very different back in the day. Would the attitude (sha'ala, respone, etc.) have been much different if the availability of CY was as it is today?
Before Cy was widely available. Obviously the availability is a game changer

Offline whYME

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #177 on: January 29, 2018, 02:41:57 PM »
ETA: If this is already fully litigated on ddf, someone just post the link and we can take it there if we actually care to (but won't)
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=13629.0

Offline henche

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #178 on: January 29, 2018, 02:42:07 PM »
The minhag of not eating out on Pesach has nothing to do with peeling and mishing. It's just not eating out, period.

I thought that's what mishing meant.

Is mishing same as kvort?

Offline henche

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