Author Topic: Pesach Programs and False Advertising  (Read 32326 times)

Offline CS1

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #225 on: January 30, 2018, 11:34:31 AM »
Very unlikely to encounter an issur  kares even in a poorly run program. Kezayis bíkdei achilas peras is not going to happen. I was referring to a program that has decent kashrus standards. My point was that the atmosphere can be uplifting for some but unacceptable for others depending on where they are holding spiritually.

Key to deciding to go to a program is directly related to the purpose of going.
If the intent is a better experience for your family and to alleviate the 6 week preparation process at home (i.e. too hard to juggle for the parents  together with their jobs/newborns/schedules, etc....) , and instead join a program, enjoy, be inspired, uplift others, inspire our own family and the people around us, then it doesn't matter as much what the people around us are doing. And like Rabbi Jacobson says, "Royalty does not notice what others are wearing."

We aren't going as if we are attending an amusement park => to see what we can enjoy the most, and eat the most.
We would be going to have a Pesach that makes us better people. And to make a better year and future for family and memories.

If we and our family are strong in our beliefs, and our children are not swayed, too vulnerable, or affected by peer pressure, then the pros (if we can afford it) outweigh the cons.


Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #226 on: January 30, 2018, 11:34:37 AM »
I like this answer, but you're making my point, unless I'm misunderstanding. What is the difference between seeing arvus and hearing loshon hora? Your reaction to both should be the same.. run the other way. Don't be mikabel either one.
"I can't run away! I need to eat my yom tov seuda but have a hard time being able to make a bracha because of all the people surrounding me on all sides who are not properly dressed. Wherever I go there are improperly dressed women. I didn't come to the hotel to be forced to stay in my room and look at the floor. I'd better make sure that next year I find a place where everyone dresses appropriately."
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #227 on: January 30, 2018, 11:35:43 AM »
Key to deciding to go to a program is directly related to the purpose of going.
If the intent is a better experience for your family and to alleviate the 6 week preparation process at home (i.e. too hard to juggle for the parents  together with their jobs/newborns/schedules, etc....) , and instead join a program, enjoy, be inspired, uplift others, inspire our own family and the people around us, then it doesn't matter as much what the people around us are doing. And like Rabbi Jacobson says, "Royalty does not notice what others are wearing."

We aren't going as if we are attending an amusement park => to see what we can enjoy the most, and eat the most.
We would be going to have a Pesach that makes us better people. And to make a better year and future for family and memories.

If we and our family are strong in our beliefs, and our children are not swayed, too vulnerable, or affected by peer pressure, then the pros (if we can afford it) outweigh the cons.


But how can they make a bracha or have a seder?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline eyj

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #228 on: January 30, 2018, 12:23:32 PM »
Can we define judgemental since there seem to be a lot of ( self described non-judgemental) people throwing the term around in accusation?
If I have a business and wonít hire a minority that is judgemental. If I am a woman and wonít hire a male personal trainer to train me in my home thatís not being judgemental. That is setting appropriate boundaries for myself and not a reflection of how I value the other person.....

Why is it so difficult to understand that there are those who based upon their level of observance donít feel itís appropriate for themselves to be around improperly dressed women without them being judgemental as to the character of those women?

Offline CS1

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #229 on: January 30, 2018, 02:37:45 PM »
But how can they make a bracha or have a seder?

hundreds of chabad houses around the world make brachos and have seders, regardless of who is at the table. (kal v'chomer if they are at another table...)
i.e. Katmandu is the world's largest seders. 2000 people. Imagine the nachas; and lives are inspired for generations.

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #230 on: January 30, 2018, 02:40:24 PM »
hundreds of chabad houses around the world make brachos and have seders, regardless of who is at the table. (kal v'chomer if they are at another table...)
i.e. Katmandu is the world's largest seders. 2000 people. Imagine the nachas; and lives are inspired for generations.
Good for them, what does it have to do with what I wrote? Let me get this straight. You cannot understand why someone would want to find out about how people dress at a passover program before going there?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline CS1

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #231 on: January 30, 2018, 03:36:06 PM »
Good for them, what does it have to do with what I wrote? Let me get this straight. You cannot understand why someone would want to find out about how people dress at a passover program before going there?

i am saying that for many people it may be part of a list of 15-20 questions about the details and pros and cons of a particular program, however is this one of your Top-2 questions?

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #232 on: January 30, 2018, 04:03:19 PM »
i am saying that for many people it may be part of a list of 15-20 questions about the details and pros and cons of a particular program, however is this one of your Top-2 questions?

Once you understand that it makes sense for it to be a question asked then its level of importance is purely a question of priorities.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline gingyguy

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #233 on: January 30, 2018, 06:21:48 PM »
I like this answer, but you're making my point, unless I'm misunderstanding. What is the difference between seeing arvus and hearing loshon hora? Your reaction to both should be the same.. run the other way. Don't be mikabel either one.
loshon hara is a lot simpler to control in your daled amos than arvus. if the fellow youre talking to says something inappropriate you can nicely tell him off and not be mekabel. but there is no way you can control the tznius in a public dining room which is why its something that hjas to be researched before hand
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline henche

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #234 on: January 30, 2018, 06:24:55 PM »
i am saying that for many people it may be part of a list of 15-20 questions about the details and pros and cons of a particular program, however is this one of your Top-2 questions?

Really? 

Priority Level 1
Kosher Food
Kosher Environment.

Priority Level 2
Price
Location
Food
Entertainment
All the other stuff

When I say it like that, you think my priorities are off-base?

Offline chevron

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #235 on: January 30, 2018, 06:53:46 PM »
reason 51 why I avoid jews. A friend of mine, big baal tzedaka MO guy was not invited to a fundraiser because his wife dresses immodestly.

This mentality and those that perpetuate it will be gone in 15 years

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #236 on: January 30, 2018, 06:54:44 PM »
reason 51 why I avoid jews
Really?? ??
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline henche

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #237 on: January 30, 2018, 07:10:16 PM »


This mentality and those that perpetuate it will be gone in 15 years

That is a constant refrain throughout the past 3k years of history.

Offline eyj

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #238 on: January 30, 2018, 07:20:25 PM »
reason 51 why I avoid jews. A friend of mine, big baal tzedaka MO guy was not invited to a fundraiser because his wife dresses immodestly.

This mentality and those that perpetuate it will be gone in 15 years

So you think they should have ignored their principles and invited a guest that would be immodestly attired to get their hands on his money?
So you avoid Jews. Do you prefer the non jewish fundraisers like the Presidents Club Charity Dinner they just had in London. Iím told anything went in terms of dress. Very principled people, those folks.

Rabbi Yaakov Yosef Herman used to hand out shawls to wedding guests who were immodestly attired back in the 1920ís. That sensitivity is still there almost a century later. If you are waiting for everyone to become desensitized you are going to be waiting a long time, my friend...

Offline Sport

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Re: Pesach Programs and False Advertising
« Reply #239 on: January 30, 2018, 07:22:27 PM »
reason 51 why I avoid jews. A friend of mine, big baal tzedaka MO guy was not invited to a fundraiser because his wife dresses immodestly.

This mentality and those that perpetuate it will be gone in 15 years
They couldn't ask her (and all guests) to dress modestly by their standards?