Author Topic: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?  (Read 18694 times)

Offline yuneeq

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2018, 11:38:02 AM »
When does the personal attacks come in since you cant defend your position?

Lol keep taking the bait. It feels nice to be on the other side.

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By the way how is the BTC scam working out? ROFLMAO!!!

I don't own BTC, lol. You're really hurting my feelings :)
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Offline aygart

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2018, 11:39:35 AM »
So I answer his question and should not expect an answer on the exact same thing?
The difference is that his was relevant and yours not.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2018, 11:41:21 AM »
Lol keep taking the bait. It feels nice to be on the other side.
Bait? So this is a childish game to you? You are not interested in honest discussions?
Here, let me help you out. Yes, yes and yes.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2018, 11:42:15 AM »
The difference is he is a Jew and you are not.
FTFY  >:( >:( >:(
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Offline aygart

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2018, 11:45:45 AM »
FTFY  >:( >:( >:(
That is a stupid statement. I have probably defended you to him more than I've defended him to you.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2018, 11:47:39 AM »
That is a stupid statement. I have probably defended you to him more than I've defended him to you.
...and Trump defends blacks. What's your point?
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2018, 11:50:31 AM »
Bait? So this is a childish game to you? You are not interested in honest discussions?

Yes it's all fun and games when someone seriously expects (and even gets upset) a direct answer to a rhetorical question.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2018, 11:52:41 AM »
Yes it's all fun and games when someone seriously expects (and even gets upset) a direct answer to a rhetorical question.
I don't get upset. I am just pointing out how you are afraid to answer any question in every thread that doesn't support your view.
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Offline aygart

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2018, 11:53:37 AM »
...and Trump defends blacks. What's your point?
what does Trump have to do with this? It is a stupid thing to play the religion card just because I took his side when I have taken yours more often. It means that ou are not looking to have an honest conversation. But that was apparent from the irrelevant question anyhow.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2018, 12:03:25 PM »
what does Trump have to do with this? It is a stupid thing to play the religion card just because I took his side when I have taken yours more often. It means that ou are not looking to have an honest conversation. But that was apparent from the irrelevant question anyhow.
You call basically the same two questions one irrelevant and one not. So now I have to try and figure out why.

You never seen anyone sign off their posts with /end rant?
Yes. Was that done here?
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Offline aygart

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2018, 12:11:59 PM »
You call basically the same two questions one irrelevant and one not. So now I have to try and figure out why.

His point was very clear. If people call their own statements rants then it can't mean that they disagree with it. You knew that (or at least should have) yet still asked a very irrelevant question about whether he ended that way here. What does that have to do with anything? That question is trying to be like the stupid gotchas on television.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avromie7

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2018, 12:13:25 PM »
 Going back to the title of this thread, I think the reason you see alot more about everything other than the hechsher is because when it comes to kashrus, there is a pretty clear line of good or not - either I will eat there or not, so being "better" doesn't really make a difference.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2018, 12:20:30 PM »
His point was very clear. If people call their own statements rants then it can't mean that they disagree with it.
I didn't take the OP as a rant. That is why I asked did he end it with /end rant. It was a simple question that was as relevant to what he asked. So you take two questions that ask basically the same thing and twist one of them. So I have to ask myself why?
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Offline cmey

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2018, 12:36:50 PM »
In Chakirah, the flatbush journal of halacha vol 23, Ari Greenspan wrote a whole article on the discovery of coffee and halacha.

Initially, thee rabbanim banned coffee houses along the lines of stam yaynam.

But this ban didnt hold. Personally, i'd like to see stam yaynam be repealed.


And my kid really hates those vaccine shots he gets by the doctor. They hurt. And he doesn’t really see any point to them. So he thinks they should be repealed.

Offline Aaaron

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2018, 12:52:57 PM »
And my kid really hates those vaccine shots he gets by the doctor. They hurt. And he doesn’t really see any point to them. So he thinks they should be repealed.

Apples =/= Oranges

Offline Definitions

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2018, 01:00:36 PM »
Apples =/= Oranges
I think he was saying that even though we don't understand something, and think it's irrelevant nowadays. The chachamim would have built that exception into their gezeirah. The fact that they didn't is just something that we have to accept whether we understand or not. Like doctors...
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Offline Aaaron

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #76 on: February 02, 2018, 01:22:17 PM »
I think he was saying that even though we don't understand something, and think it's irrelevant nowadays. The chachamim would have built that exception into their gezeirah. The fact that they didn't is just something that we have to accept whether we understand or not. Like doctors...

That's disingenuous.  This isn't a chok; it's meant to have a purpose.  Assuring coffee houses as stam yaynam wouldn't stick due to societal pressures, similar to the need for potatoes on pesach, therefore not ruling them kitniyos. 

To claim that society and human needs don't play a role in creating gezeiros, heterim, chumros, etc., is patently false.  For some reason people feel the need to claim is doesn't and never has, due to some fear that it weakens modern day torah judaism. 

We're not comparable to children who don't understand something that clearly has a proven purpose. 

Offline chevron

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2018, 01:31:37 PM »
I think he was saying that even though we don't understand something, and think it's irrelevant nowadays. The chachamim would have built that exception into their gezeirah. The fact that they didn't is just something that we have to accept whether we understand or not. Like doctors...

I cant say any thing on this thread without being accused of bragging. So, for the record, my chavrusa is a noted Rav and Dayan and deep thinker. My ideas are not shots in the dark. Nor are they unfounded, stam yaynam was not initially accepted in sefard, in italy it was noted (I cant remember who, might have been rav ovadia bartenura) that in one city they werent strict with yayn stam but they were strict with women going to the mikva and in another city it was the exact opposite.

Your co-relation is really silly, that would be akin to saying, we should give every one polio vaccinations.

Halacha is not about blind obedience, there are a few reasons for stam yaynam but by and large its illogical.

read up on the history of takanot

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14204-takkanah

Takanat SHUM

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(4) quiet and devotion must rule in the synagogue;

Do you talk in shull?!?!
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To these synods must be ascribed also the following ordinances of uncertain date which have been preserved under the name "taḳḳanot ha-ḳehillot me-ashkenaz": (1) no Jew may wear a garment or cuffs after the Christian fashion, nor may he have his beard cut with a razor; (2) no wine made by Christians may be used by Jews; (3) no Jew may cause a jar to be filled with water by a non-Jew on the Sabbath; (4) a Jew may not gamble with a Christian; (5) the punishment of guilt by solitary confinement in an apartment of the synagogue in enjoined; (6) entertainments and banquets are prohibited; (7) Jews who were recipients of charity had to give tithes of same; (8) all persons must wear the "kittel" in the synagogue; (9) the margins of a book must not be cut (Moses Minz, l.c. No. 102; "Codex Halberstadt," No. 49).


I guess all the frumme in vegas and atlantic city are heretics... me? I just want wine and I whine

Offline chevron

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2018, 01:41:08 PM »
Gezirot and Takanot etc were implemented based on the times.. and i'll challenge you this, who says they were accepted back then??? Nowadays we have rabbanim banning the internet and you expect me to accept that we all accept this ?

Likewise, things were repealed because they were deemed too hard or expired.

I dont care how people dress and im not crazy about kashrut, I check for bugs in that I look at items and if I dont see a bug, I eat it. The lav is "lo l'echol tolaim" I dont eat the various bugs around my house.


Offline aygart

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Re: More concerned with the way others dress than hechsher?
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2018, 02:02:27 PM »
Gezirot and Takanot etc were implemented based on the times.. and i'll challenge you this, who says they were accepted back then???
There are halachic differences between takanos which were accpted at the time and ones which were not. They are all sourced.
Feelings don't care about your facts