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1) The Holocaust happened because Jews were unable to obtain guns due to Poland's notoriously strict gun laws.
2) The left wants an absolute gun ban - no guns at all, any type, for anyone, ever.
3) The right wants mass shootings, especially school shootings.
4) Everyone agrees we need to require better background checks and use more discretion in handing out gun licenses.
4.a The right cannot pass such legislation because it is a slippery slope to banning all guns, everywhere, for everyone.
4.b The left cannot pass such legislation because it is not enough.
5)  Every school in the US should have metal detectors at the entrance, be surrounded by a 30' cement wall and have armed guards in every classroom and hallway. The more guns around kids the better.
6) 7 year olds going through half an hour of security theater every day just to go to school is a perfectly normal and acceptable solution.
7) The second amendment entitles every US citizen to an AR-15.
8 ) Laws don't prevent crimes.
9) Guns don't kill people
10) Stats prove my side of the argument 100% correct. (D)
11) Stats prove my side of the argument 100% correct  (R)

Author Topic: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)  (Read 200309 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #680 on: February 20, 2018, 10:18:04 PM »
Meaning 15-16 would still be dead?
My bad read it wrong. One or two would have died.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #681 on: February 20, 2018, 10:23:07 PM »
My bad read it wrong. One or two would have died.
Ok so since you claim to be the expert, what would be the deadliest SA handgun, and what would the number be?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline aygart

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #682 on: February 20, 2018, 10:23:24 PM »
For starters it is much more likely that someone would have been able to jump him successfully
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #683 on: February 20, 2018, 10:24:54 PM »
Ok so since you claim to be the expert, what would be the deadliest SA handgun, and what would the number be?
LOL
I answer the question. Now the answer doesn’t fit your point so now you want to change the question.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #684 on: February 20, 2018, 10:26:41 PM »
LOL
I answer the question. Now the answer doesn’t fit your point so now you want to change the question.
You twisted it to give the answer you wanted, which still doesn't disprove my point
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #685 on: February 20, 2018, 10:30:46 PM »
You twisted it to give the answer you wanted, which still doesn't disprove my point
I didn’t twist anything. I picked an extremely popular handgun. I own a few of them. The Ruger is a classic.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #686 on: February 20, 2018, 10:35:50 PM »
I didn’t twist anything. I picked an extremely popular handgun. I own a few of them. The Ruger is a classic.
Are you going to answer the updated version of my question, or just deflect it because it doesn't fit your narrative?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #687 on: February 20, 2018, 10:37:57 PM »
Are you going to answer the updated version of my question, or just deflect it because it doesn't fit your narrative?
I answered your question and your point was shot down. You don’t get a second bite at the apple. Educate yourself first.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #688 on: February 20, 2018, 10:41:51 PM »
I answered your question and your point was shot down. You don’t get a second bite at the apple. Educate yourself first.
The fact that you refuse to answer proves my point, that an assault rifle ban would do little to save lives, because a mass shooter can always use a powerful handgun, and kill nearly the same amount of people.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #689 on: February 20, 2018, 10:47:45 PM »
The fact that you refuse to answer proves my point, that an assault rifle ban would do little to save lives, because a mass shooter can always use a powerful handgun, and kill nearly the same amount of people.
You are 100% wrong. Educate yourself before asking stupid questions.
Anyone can see for themselves I answered your question and proved your assumption wrong.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #690 on: February 20, 2018, 10:50:58 PM »
I don't know much about guns, but doesn't it make sense that something that can fire off more bullets quicker will be more deadly?

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #691 on: February 20, 2018, 10:53:57 PM »
I don't know much about guns, but doesn't it make sense that something that can fire off more bullets quicker will be more deadly?

I also don't know much about guns, but I've leaned from this thread that no, despite the preponderance of mass shootings being done with AR-15s and the like, there was one deadly shooting with a handgun, so they're all equal.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #692 on: February 20, 2018, 11:10:59 PM »
I also don't know much about guns, but I've leaned from this thread that no, despite the preponderance of mass shootings being done with AR-15s and the like, there was one deadly shooting with a handgun, so they're all equal.
Sounds like a good lomdus

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #693 on: February 20, 2018, 11:31:22 PM »
I also don't know much about guns, but I've leaned from this thread that no, despite the preponderance of mass shootings being done with AR-15s and the like, there was one deadly shooting with a handgun, so they're all equal.
You can’t compare the two. His victims were shot at least three times. The second attack 28 of the 30 were shot in the head.
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Offline ssvarc

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #694 on: February 21, 2018, 12:08:55 AM »
Ok now...
Let's go slowly.

1.The right to property is certainly enshrined in the Constitution.
2. At the time of it's writing, this included land, horses, chulent beans, oil lamps and slaves.
3. Over time, culture changed, and negros came to be considered persons, particularly in the North.

This process was reflected throughout court decisions.
Let's go even slower.

1. The right to property is still enshrined in the Constitution.

2. The words that actually enshrine them are still there.

3. I'm very late for night seder. Bl'n, I'll continue later tonight.
4. Slavery was specifically not enshrined as that would have been a deal killer; the Union would never have formed, and the Republic would have been a stillbirth.

5. As others have pointed out to you, there were states that joined the Union that had either already outlawed slavery (Vermont), or were in the process of outlawing slavery (basically all of the Northern states by 1804).

6. Imagine if they had tried joining the Union after outlawing an actual enshrined Constitutional right, like say, you know... umm... let me think... oh, property!

7. The matter was left to the States (see the Missouri Compromise https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Compromise).

8. The dreadful DS and A v B decisions might have enshrined it defacto.

9. This led, however, to a Civil War over the issue.

10. Which led to the Emancipation, which freed slaves in rebellious states (leaving the ones in Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware still enslaved) and finally the Thirteenth Amendment which outlawed slavery throughout the Republic.

11. Let's contrast this with guns, which are enshrined in the Constitution.

12. Nothing short of an Amendment can get rid of this specifically enumerated, incorporated (against the states), enshrined right.

13. Obviously, like all other Constitutional rights, they can be restricted. They cannot be "eliminated as part of a culture change" unless we start ignoring Constitutional rights and the Constitutional process.

14. If that happens, what will protect the other rights, like say, 1A, from being eliminated as well? "You can't say things that hurt other people and cause them emotional distress."

Please let me know if this was slow enough.

Offline ssvarc

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #695 on: February 21, 2018, 12:25:25 AM »
I don't know much about guns, but doesn't it make sense that something that can fire off more bullets quicker will be more deadly?
That actually does make sense.

The issue isn't the logic, it's the reality.

In reality, semiautomatic handguns and semiautomatic rifles fire one bullet for each pull of the trigger.

Barring slight differences of trigger pull, different mechanisms, etc. they all shoot at roughly the same speeds. (The main limiting factor being how fast the person pulls the trigger.)

So in terms of practical fire rate they're the same deadly.

Edit: I was answering you in the form of arguendo, as your question is logical. I'm showing, that even assuming your logical assumptions, once you know the realities you wouldn't consider one as deadlier due to practical fire rate.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 12:55:26 AM by ssvarc »

Offline ssvarc

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #696 on: February 21, 2018, 12:45:35 AM »

I also don't know much about guns, but I've leaned from this thread that no, despite the preponderance of mass shootings being done with AR-15s and the like, there was one deadly shooting with a handgun, so they're all equal.

Actually, @Yehuda57, as I've stated above, the "preponderance of mass shootings" are done with handguns.

...
AR's are used in crime in miniscule proportion to handguns.

Vast majority of mass shootings in US are done with handguns.

Vast majority of mass casualty shootings (four or more deaths) in US are with handguns.

The deadliest school shooting in the US was done with handguns. (It was also the deadliest school shooting in the world not committed by terrorists.)
...

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #697 on: February 21, 2018, 12:55:18 AM »
Actually, @Yehuda57, as I've stated above, the "preponderance of mass shootings" are done with handguns.
You say a lot of things but never back it up.
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Offline davidrotts63

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Offline ssvarc

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #699 on: February 21, 2018, 01:16:41 AM »
You say a lot of things but never back it up.

As explained, multiple times I might add (see below), I don't accept double standards.

...
If common sense is the standard for your preferred policy choices, I won't accept a double standard for my policy choices.


A fair question. It depends who's asking. When I think the question is sincere by someone who's trying to understand, I'm willing to assist (e.g. reference my reply to @gingyguy).

However, if the people asking play a double standard where their claims are "logical", "common sense", etc. and I need to bring proof, no thanks.
...

@Yehuda57 makes a claim that "...the preponderance of mass shootings being done with AR-15s and the like, there was one deadly shooting with a handgun...".

Did he provide any proof?

Then why do I need to provide proof to my claim?

Let him post proof for his claim and I'll gladly post the proof for mine.

I don't accept double standards.