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1) The Holocaust happened because Jews were unable to obtain guns due to Poland's notoriously strict gun laws.
2) The left wants an absolute gun ban - no guns at all, any type, for anyone, ever.
3) The right wants mass shootings, especially school shootings.
4) Everyone agrees we need to require better background checks and use more discretion in handing out gun licenses.
4.a The right cannot pass such legislation because it is a slippery slope to banning all guns, everywhere, for everyone.
4.b The left cannot pass such legislation because it is not enough.
5)  Every school in the US should have metal detectors at the entrance, be surrounded by a 30' cement wall and have armed guards in every classroom and hallway. The more guns around kids the better.
6) 7 year olds going through half an hour of security theater every day just to go to school is a perfectly normal and acceptable solution.
7) The second amendment entitles every US citizen to an AR-15.
8 ) Laws don't prevent crimes.
9) Guns don't kill people
10) Stats prove my side of the argument 100% correct. (D)
11) Stats prove my side of the argument 100% correct  (R)

Author Topic: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)  (Read 200361 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #700 on: February 21, 2018, 01:27:49 AM »
I don't accept double standards.
I provided numerous links to murders with guns. You provided no links that show they saved more lives than murders. It is basic knowledge of guns which you have not demonstrated.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #701 on: February 21, 2018, 01:32:03 AM »
The stats show the higher number of deaths the more likely it will not be a handgun.
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Offline ssvarc

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #702 on: February 21, 2018, 01:37:35 AM »
I provided numerous links to murders with guns. You provided no links that show they saved more lives than murders. It is basic knowledge of guns which have not demonstrated.
It's late at night and I need to get to bed.

G-d willing, I'll try to post again in the next couple of days, at which time I'll carefully and slowly show how your links don't show what you claim, nor were they responsive to my specific claim.

Hang on, I'm getting to you.

I will also, bl'n, repost your claims about AR's and my previous posted rebuttal. Just so we can see about that "basic knowledge" a second time.

Now please don't go and ruin this by posting even more until I get back, or else the backlog will grow out of control.

Have a great night.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #703 on: February 21, 2018, 01:40:39 AM »
Just when you look at mass shootings see how many are done in private homes over family issues. I figure you need some help. 😂
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #704 on: February 21, 2018, 07:16:04 AM »
Actually, @Yehuda57, as I've stated above, the "preponderance of mass shootings" are done with handguns.
How are you defining "mass shooting"? In free context of this conversation, it would be school shootings like parkland, Sandy Hook, etc, and other shootings like Las Vegas, Charleston, Orlando, etc.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #705 on: February 21, 2018, 07:44:31 AM »
That actually does make sense.

The issue isn't the logic, it's the reality.

In reality, semiautomatic handguns and semiautomatic rifles fire one bullet for each pull of the trigger.

Barring slight differences of trigger pull, different mechanisms, etc. they all shoot at roughly the same speeds. (The main limiting factor being how fast the person pulls the trigger.)

So in terms of practical fire rate they're the same deadly.

Edit: I was answering you in the form of arguendo, as your question is logical. I'm showing, that even assuming your logical assumptions, once you know the realities you wouldn't consider one as deadlier due to practical fire rate.
@chaimmoskowitz do you agree with this? If so why would you say assault rifles should be banned any more than handguns?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #706 on: February 21, 2018, 09:10:09 AM »
@ChaimMoskowitz do you agree with this? If so why would you say assault rifles should be banned any more than handguns?
Do I agree every time you pull the trigger a round is fired, yes. What is your point?

We have many gun problems in this country. You can't lump them all together.   
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #707 on: February 21, 2018, 09:35:17 AM »
How are you defining "mass shooting"? In free context of this conversation, it would be school shootings like parkland, Sandy Hook, etc, and other shootings like Las Vegas, Charleston, Orlando, etc.
Everyone is going to use numbers that favor their points they are trying to make.

Here is a couple of examples.
Family dispute an a deranged individual kills four family members in his home. Mass shooting?
Another deranged individual goes to a school and shoots 25 individuals and two die. Mass shooting?
In the context of this thread I started:
1 - No
2 - Yes
Now if you use 4 or more killed as a mass shooting it would be the opposite:
1 - Yes
2 - No
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Online avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #708 on: February 21, 2018, 09:40:43 AM »
Do I agree every time you pull the trigger a round is fired, yes. What is your point?

We have many gun problems in this country. You can't lump them all together.
Again, you're deflecting and ignoring the question at hand.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #709 on: February 21, 2018, 09:42:44 AM »
Again, you're deflecting and ignoring the question at hand.
Your question was answered and it disproved your point. Now you need to troll other posts.
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Online avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #710 on: February 21, 2018, 09:49:01 AM »
Your question was answered and it disproved your point. Now you need to troll other posts.
You're saying that if we banned "assault rifles", all future mass shootings would be committed with .22s?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #711 on: February 21, 2018, 09:56:25 AM »
You're saying that if we banned "assault rifles", all future mass shootings would be committed with .22s?
No. Where did you get that from?
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Online avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #712 on: February 21, 2018, 10:11:55 AM »
As soon as I asked this question, you started deflecting.
Assuming we had all these laws in place, how do you think it would have effected this mass shooting attack?
Then you found the most extreme possible response that technically answered the question

If he use a .22 SA handgun I would say one or two as a high number.
Then after I clarified, you refused to answer claiming that you already answered the question, and your only response to this
The fact that you refuse to answer proves my point, that an assault rifle ban would do little to save lives, because a mass shooter can always use a powerful handgun, and kill nearly the same amount of people.
Was this
You are 100% wrong.
The most logical conclusion is you mean this

You're saying that if we banned "assault rifles", all future mass shootings would be committed with .22s?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #713 on: February 21, 2018, 10:20:17 AM »
You are a totally dishonest person. Here is the question you asked and I answered it. Then you go off on a tangent because my answer disproved your point. If you are going to try and trap someone you might want to educate yourself on the subject first. Do you see me trying to trap @aygart about Judaism. I just accept the fact he knows what he is talking about. You should do the same.
The AR is not the issue, it's the dead and injured that's the issue. If he didn't have an AR and instead had a semi-automatic handgun, how many people who were killed, would still be alive?
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #714 on: February 21, 2018, 10:20:27 AM »
Do I agree every time you pull the trigger a round is fired, yes. What is your point?

We have many gun problems in this country. You can't lump them all together.
I'm trying to understand why assault rifles are more dangerous than handguns. Maybe you can explain it. I understand what the problem is with bump stocks, but what's the issue here?

Offline gingyguy

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Online avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #716 on: February 21, 2018, 10:29:45 AM »
When trying to fix the issue at hand, the best way to evaluate each solution is:

1) If we look back at history, what effect would said change/law have had in each attack, would it have stopped it from happening? Would it have stopped it sooner, or made it less deadly and how much sooner or less deadly.
2) If this change/law were to go into effect, what would the attacker have done different? Would he have found a different option that would be equally as deadly, nearly as deadly, barely deadly, or even more deadly?
3) What are the negative effects of this change/law? Will it leave people more vulnerable to other types of attacks? Will it make other crimes or attacks easier? Are we taking away peoples rights or liberty?
4) We can now evaluate if it solves anything, and if the gains are worth the losses.


Is there anything I'm missing? Does anyone disagree?

I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #717 on: February 21, 2018, 10:31:25 AM »
You are a totally dishonest person. Here is the question you asked and I answered it. Then you go off on a tangent because my answer disproved your point. If you are going to try and trap someone you might want to educate yourself on the subject first. Do you see me trying to trap @aygart about Judaism. I just accept the fact he knows what he is talking about. You should do the same.
Why did you assume that I meant a .22? Any logical person would realize I am referring to the most powerful weapon he would have available if we banned "assault rifles".
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #718 on: February 21, 2018, 12:36:08 PM »
I'm trying to understand why assault rifles are more dangerous than handguns. Maybe you can explain it. I understand what the problem is with bump stocks, but what's the issue here?
Assault rifles have massive killing power. Most have 20-30 round magazines as standard. Way more accurate than handguns.
Every situation is different. The problem is these weapons have become so popular. Monkey see monkey do.
We are lucky these deranged individuals are not knowledgeable about guns or more lives would be lost.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #719 on: February 21, 2018, 12:43:44 PM »
Why did you assume that I meant a .22? Any logical person would realize I am referring to the most powerful weapon he would have available if we banned "assault rifles".
I didn't assume anything. I answered your question. STOP WITH THE CRYING!!!

Why would a logical person compare the most powerful handgun to one of the least powerful assault rifles? I compared a .22 to a .223 with is slightly bigger in diameter. I happen to own a .44 Magnum which is one of the most powerful handguns made. You want me to use that as a comparison?  ::)
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