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1) The Holocaust happened because Jews were unable to obtain guns due to Poland's notoriously strict gun laws.
2) The left wants an absolute gun ban - no guns at all, any type, for anyone, ever.
3) The right wants mass shootings, especially school shootings.
4) Everyone agrees we need to require better background checks and use more discretion in handing out gun licenses.
4.a The right cannot pass such legislation because it is a slippery slope to banning all guns, everywhere, for everyone.
4.b The left cannot pass such legislation because it is not enough.
5)  Every school in the US should have metal detectors at the entrance, be surrounded by a 30' cement wall and have armed guards in every classroom and hallway. The more guns around kids the better.
6) 7 year olds going through half an hour of security theater every day just to go to school is a perfectly normal and acceptable solution.
7) The second amendment entitles every US citizen to an AR-15.
8 ) Laws don't prevent crimes.
9) Guns don't kill people
10) Stats prove my side of the argument 100% correct. (D)
11) Stats prove my side of the argument 100% correct  (R)

Author Topic: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)  (Read 200130 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #800 on: February 21, 2018, 11:46:12 PM »
I stand corrected. I thought that this was in all states.

I do see however that it varies by state
Correct. I was talking about Federal law like not being able to own a gun.
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Offline ssvarc

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #801 on: February 22, 2018, 02:25:26 AM »


Impressive! I believe this is the first time I've seen you try to back up a claim with anything over than "common sense" "you know nothing" "I'm an expert" "your claim is stupid, idiotic, etc.". Props.

However, while it's an A for effort, it's a B for actual proof.

Perhaps, if walls were made of stacked 2x4's those videos might be relevant (although I saw some range issues, etc.).

Here is one link, of the many available, that goes through the issue: http://www.outdoorhub.com/ar-15-appropriate-home-defense-part-one-penetration-issues

Some relevant quotes (but please read the entire article):

Quote
...A heavier and slower pistol round, or a very light and fast rifle round... The thing about light and fast bullets is that they tend to get upset--specifically, fragment or tumble---when they hit harder things like walls or furniture. Tumbling and fragmenting both result in a very rapid loss of velocity and energy, therefore a lightweight rifle projectile going somewhere around 3,000 feet per second may actually have less unwanted penetration than a pistol round traveling in the 1,000 feet per second range.

...

...Shooting through drywall only, the 9mm projectiles went right through all four walls and right out the back. So did the .223 Remington full metal jacket loads. While both the 9mm and .223 Remington projectiles went through all four walls (eight pieces of Sheetrock), the .223 started to upset after passing through the second wall in the drywall-only test. As you can see in the photos, it went through walls three through four bumbling and tumbling---and losing lots of energy in the process. But the path stayed true, and the .223 projectiles were not knocked off-course. The 9mm rounds? They didn't deviate a bit and went through all four walls like butter...

... By observation of the fragmentation patterns, they were clearly losing velocity and energy. How much damage would they have done to a person at that point? I can't say more than "less" than the pistol rounds, which were still humming right along...

...You always have to worry about what's behind your target. Nearly all of the rounds tested went through at least four walls, although some obviously came out the back end with a lot less energy than others...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 02:28:55 AM by ssvarc »

Offline TheAsh

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #802 on: February 22, 2018, 08:21:49 AM »
It's pretty weird how the media only focuses on the students that advance their agenda - weirdly, the student who is being interviewed gave a antigun message 4 hours before the shooting - pretty convenient for him...
https://www.infowars.com/david-hogg-holds-anti-gun-interview-4-hours-before-shooting/
Also:
https://www.infowars.com/student-anti-gun-activist-featured-in-cbs-la-news-story-six-months-ago/
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/exposed-school-shooting-surviver-turned-activist-david-hoggs-father-fbi-appears-coached-anti-trump-lines-video/

The antigun-control students just get censored and ignored...
https://www.infowars.com/florida-high-school-survivor-we-need-guns-to-protect-us-from-bad-guys/

It's hard to argue and say the media isn't blatantly pushing an agenda:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-22/florida-shooting-survivor-cnn-gave-scripted-question-after-refusing-question-about

If you're wondering why I'm using a so-called conspiracist sites like infowars, although they often go off the deep end, here they seem to be the only guys reporting the facts. Meanwhile, Youtube is removing any video that implies David Hoggs is not what he seems.
I'm all for a reasonable debate on gun control, but for some reason Dems always push when emotions are running high and there's no room for disagreement because you're branded 'evil'.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 08:48:25 AM by TheAsh »
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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #803 on: February 22, 2018, 09:47:48 AM »
No way CNN would rig the questions at a town hall. Just ask Donna Brazile.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #804 on: February 22, 2018, 10:22:01 AM »
give rubio a lot of props for standing up and taking it there

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Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #806 on: February 22, 2018, 10:48:01 AM »
give rubio a lot of props for standing up and taking it there

might have killed his political career though by not being able to answer the NRA donation question. He did not look good yesterday at some points

the governor is probably toast for not coming at all

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #807 on: February 22, 2018, 10:48:30 AM »
My reading brought me to the conclusion that an AR15 is known as the ideal weapon for home defense.
Now the facts we agree on.

1 - AR you use two hands and a handgun you use one.
Now are there any home defense situations you need a free hand?
Opening a door
Turning on a light
Calling the police
Helping or carrying your child to safety
The list goes on but you get the idea

2 - AR has a higher penetration than most handguns.
Collateral damage is higher with an AR.

3 - Easier to grab the barrel of an AR than a handgun.
You have to navigate a home where the barrel is going to sickout like a sore thumb.

The list goes on and on that prove a handgun is a better choice for home defense.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #808 on: February 22, 2018, 10:50:19 AM »
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/02/22/shooting_survivor_colton_haab_cnn_gave_me_scripted_question_after_denying_question_about_armed_guards.html
Did you read till the bottom, including the update?

ETA: And since you like to talk about responsible journalism so much, how do they initially publish the article without any comment from CNN?

Offline Sport

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #809 on: February 22, 2018, 10:55:09 AM »
might have killed his political career though by not being able to answer the NRA donation question. He did not look good yesterday at some points

the governor is probably toast for not coming at all
+1 he certainly gets props for showing up to what was certain to be a hornets nest, with no way to not get hurt politically.  I think his performance will hurt him in the long run, he came off as was lacking in compassion and robotic in his responses.

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #810 on: February 22, 2018, 10:57:30 AM »
Did you read till the bottom, including the update?

ETA: And since you like to talk about responsible journalism so much, how do they initially publish the article without any comment from CNN?
yes i did. Why?

Note that the statement there is contradictory to the one here
[tweet]966664545908461569[/tweet]

"Did not provide or script questions...nor have we ever"
No way CNN would rig the questions at a town hall. Just ask Donna Brazile.


Are you familiar with RCP? They post videos from news stations verbatim all the time. They are not writing a journalistic article here.

Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #811 on: February 22, 2018, 10:59:16 AM »
Impressive!
Its days now and you still have not backed up your idiotic claim that guns have saved more lives. We are waiting!!!
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #812 on: February 22, 2018, 11:03:29 AM »
might have killed his political career though by not being able to answer the NRA donation question.

Why do people care so much about NRA donations? The unions give candidates much more money than the NRA, is that also a problem? Anyone that donates has an agenda. Welcome to politics.
Visibly Jewish

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #813 on: February 22, 2018, 11:05:57 AM »
Give him credit to be open to ideas. Now you must address the elephant in the room, GUNS!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966662241977360384
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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #814 on: February 22, 2018, 11:07:41 AM »
Give him credit to be open to ideas. Now you must address the elephant in the room, GUNS!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966662241977360384
I would recommend that you first let this pass and then work on the next step instead of adding the more difficult part and killing the whole thing.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Sport

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #815 on: February 22, 2018, 11:09:53 AM »
25 should be the min age to be able to purchase a gun. There are countless studies that the rational part of the brain is not fully developed until this age- we don't need people who cant make fully rationale decisions with access to firearms.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #816 on: February 22, 2018, 11:11:04 AM »
I would recommend that you first let this pass and then work on the next step instead of adding the more difficult part and killing the whole thing.
Unlike the nuts on both ends anything he does to help the situation is a plus. Sooner or later you need to address the elephant!!!
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #817 on: February 22, 2018, 11:12:35 AM »
Why do people care so much about NRA donations? The unions give candidates much more money than the NRA, is that also a problem? Anyone that donates has an agenda. Welcome to politics.
Labor unions outspend the NRA somewhere in the range on 40:1
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #818 on: February 22, 2018, 11:13:04 AM »
Unlike the nuts on both ends anything he does to help the situation is a plus. Sooner or later you need to address the elephant!!!
I am simply talking tactical.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Parkland, FL 2/14/18 School Shooting, 17 Killed (Another mass shooting!)
« Reply #819 on: February 22, 2018, 11:16:16 AM »
Labor unions outspend the NRA somewhere in the range on 40:1
OK what does that have to with anything? They are upset he is taking money from the NRA.
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