Author Topic: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide  (Read 32278 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2018, 10:42:49 AM »
No, it didnt happen.
...and sexual abuse in the Catholic church never happened when I was growing up because I didn't hear about it.  ::)
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Offline yhaller14

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #61 on: February 23, 2018, 10:42:56 AM »


Its not rare. 11 years old is rare, but many teen suicides have been chalked up to bullying.  Everything is blamed on bullying, from suicide, to drugs, to drinking.

I dont agree at all. Just think about all the PC things that would get someone thrown out of school today if mentioned out loud. I think the kids are way more sensitive than we were. I grew up in the 80s in a mainstream yeshiva. We had Holocaust survivor rebbeim who beat us with 2x4's, rulers, open hands, unrelenting punishments. There was plenty of bullying. I dont recall one suicide in a yeshiva that had several hundred students in all the years I was there from K-11.

Exactly, a big part is the parents bringing up sensitive snowflakes, 30 years ago the world wasn't anywhere near as liberal and people had to actually take action themselves and nobody knew to have  scapegoats as an excuse for whatever you'd like...... So ya it's not the same kids now and then... there different kids with diffent mindsets and different everything that's the issue.... When I was in school and I would've told my parents I was getting bullied my parents would just tell me to beat the crap out of the kid and problem solved but now it's not like that..
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Offline yhaller14

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Offline hvaces42

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2018, 10:43:21 AM »
-100
Then obviously they werent good parents. A parent that is in tune with their kids rarely turns out bad kids.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2018, 10:44:20 AM »
Then we have a massive amount of bad parents.
Or overworked disconnected parents.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2018, 10:45:34 AM »
Then obviously they werent good parents. A parent that is in tune with their kids rarely turns out bad kids.
Of course you are right because there is no such thing as an evil kid.
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Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2018, 10:46:38 AM »
Because more often then you may think, the parents raised the kids fine. And they took action by making the calls too, but the response is too lame.

Where did a child learn that it is acceptable to mistreat and bully a kid? Im not saying everything is on the parents but bad middos and lack of basic care and respect for others primarily stems from lack of proper upbringing.

Offline chevron

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2018, 10:47:27 AM »
Oh man if I ever made fun of someone my parents would have none of it, I got lots of slaps on the face.. Patch in punim.

I'm very opposed to physical punishment but I'm saying good parents will raise their kids that taunting or stuff like that is unacceptable. Again, my experience was that the rich kids had a sense of entitlement and often their parents were away.

Or the kid who said "it's my zaidys yeshiva" etc..

I'm sure suicide happened in the past, but was covered up.

Maybe those accidents and tragedies we heard of as kids were really suicide?

Offline sky121

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2018, 10:48:03 AM »
Then obviously they werent good parents. A parent that is in tune with their kids rarely turns out bad kids.
You're speaking very black and white here.

Are all kids who have ever bullied 'bad kids'?


There are plenty of good parents who have kids that have bullied.  A good parent just deals with their kid and acts accordingly.
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Offline YossieW

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2018, 10:48:49 AM »

 When I was in school and I would've told my parents I was getting bullied my parents would just tell me to beat the crap out of the kid and problem solved but now it's not like that..

i know someone who was bullied and one day had enough so he put the bully in a choke hold one day so the bully ran to the principal and since the bullies parents were very influential whose side do you think the principal took

Online aygart

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2018, 10:48:59 AM »
I've dealt with 60 year old bullies too.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline beeweegee

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2018, 10:49:26 AM »
Exactly same here, I didn't grow up that long ago but even 10 years ago these stories were almost unheard of...... I don't think the bullying is the issue...... Ya it's terrible that he got bullied but for someone to go from there and kill themselves at any age has far larger issues and for more going on in their lives than being bullied........
The numbers have gone up, but it was happening then too to some extent...

Bullying is a primary issue. It isn't always going to be the only issue or even the main issue, but in this demographic (early adolescence), interpersonal and relationship issues (family and/or friends, including bullying) are a precipitating factor in most suicides. We can talk about blaming the school, blaming the system, blaming parents, etc., and this can be a great and enlightening discussion for a lot of people. But I'm not sure I see the utility in talking about it in the context of this case, where (at least for me) there are so few available details. Even if we think we know, there is almost always FAR more about the situation that we don't know about. My only point here is - by all means, have a great discussion about anti-bullying policies (which, by the way, need to improve tremendously in private schools of all kinds and religions), but this can be done without referring to this child and school specifically.

Mental health also often plays a role (about a third of suicides in this age range had a diagnosed MH disorder), so let's not leave that out.

Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2018, 10:49:47 AM »
Then obviously they werent good parents. A parent that is in tune with their kids rarely turns out bad kids.

Again "bad" kid is subjective. Disrespect, mean tendencies, selfishness and lack of sensitivities to others is definitely from  bad parenting.

Offline beeweegee

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2018, 10:50:59 AM »

Offline hvaces42

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2018, 10:51:11 AM »
...and sexual abuse in the Catholic church never happened when I was growing up because I didn't hear about it.  ::)
Again, I went to elementary school and high school to the same school for 12 of the 14 years I was in school. There was one death in all those years. A kid was hit by a car when he ran into the street. There were no other unexplained deaths, let alone a suicide in all those years in our school. My classmates brother was murdered in another school (and that murder remains unsolved to this day) but thats it.   
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2018, 10:51:25 AM »
The parent that tells their bullied child just be the crap out of the kid is the bad parent. This is the same parent when confronted with his kid is a bully will respond with tell your kid to grow a set.
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Offline chevron

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2018, 10:52:02 AM »

Exactly, a big part is the parents bringing up sensitive snowflakes, 30 years ago the world wasn't anywhere near as liberal and people had to actually take action themselves and nobody knew to have  scapegoats as an excuse for whatever you'd like...... So ya it's not the same kids now and then... there different kids with diffent mindsets and different everything that's the issue.... When I was in school and I would've told my parents I was getting bullied my parents would just tell me to beat the crap out of the kid and problem solved but now it's not like that..

Haha when some goy punk would harass me on the city bus home from school and stole my yarmulke, my grandfather told me to beat the crap out of him and told me where to punch him.

When a kid in the Lubavitch school who used to bully me and pick on me, stole my snack machine money my other grandfather gave me, my ww2 combat vet 6'3 grandfather came in,  grabbed the kid, held him upside down over the garbage can...


Oh god, he never bothered me again... I miss my grandparents and tough as nails ww2 and Korea war vets

Offline hvaces42

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2018, 10:52:38 AM »
I've dealt with 60 year old bullies too.
I thought he was 65  ::)
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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2018, 10:52:46 AM »
...and sexual abuse in the Catholic church never happened when I was growing up because I didn't hear about it.  ::)
How would you not hear about a death?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline sky121

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2018, 10:53:20 AM »
Again, I went to elementary school and high school to the same school for 12 of the 14 years I was in school. There was one death in all those years. A kid was hit by a car when he ran into the street. There were no other unexplained deaths, let alone a suicide in all those years in our school. My classmates brother was murdered in another school (and that murder remains unsolved to this day) but thats it.   

You're speaking in schools. I just meant the communities. I'm not saying it isn't more common now. But it happened then too.
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