Author Topic: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide  (Read 32275 times)

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2018, 09:59:43 AM »
Parents also have to do more. Its a joint effort between parents/family and schools. There needs to be communication between the 2 parties so that warning signs can be identified. If a child is troubled we need to find out why and what we can do to address the issues.
From what I see it's over looked entirely by the schools, if it's in school they should be the ones seeing it. Being that it's not something easy to deal with, they tend to ignore it when warned too.
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Offline sky121

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2018, 10:00:38 AM »
No its not the school to blame. Its not the schools job to raise our kids. Its their job to educate.
Not speaking of this story specifically because I don't know the details but schools should be responsible for enforcing the rules and not allowing bullying to continue without consequences.
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2018, 10:01:02 AM »
No its not the school to blame. Its not the schools job to raise our kids. Its their job to educate.
So who's supposed to educate and discipline bullying. It's the school's job to tend to the welfare of the students, especially during hours.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2018, 10:03:37 AM »
No its not the school to blame. Its not the schools job to raise our kids. Its their job to educate.
School bullying is a major problem. When they do nothing they are a major problem.
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Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2018, 10:06:50 AM »
Not speaking of this story specifically because I don't know the details but schools should be responsible for enforcing the rules and not allowing bullying to continue without consequences.

True they should enforce rules but Im coming from the other angle that a child who is a bully its likely because he was not raised well or was not given enough attention by his parents and a child who gets bullied needs to feel loved and supported by his parents and see that they are also doing their part. Often parents dont want to believe that their kid is a bully or that their kid is getting bullied and take no action to stop it.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2018, 10:08:56 AM »
Not speaking of this story specifically because I don't know the details but schools should be responsible for enforcing the rules and not allowing bullying to continue without consequences.
When my kids were in school we had a known case of school bullying. There response was we will not tolerate any form of bullying. Of course it continued. The child made a threat to another child. He was kicked out of school. Not one child was ever disciplined for bullying this kid. Private schools are the worst for these types of cover-ups.
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2018, 10:09:13 AM »


True they should enforce rules but Im coming from the other angle that a child who is a bully its likely because he was not raised well or was not given enough attention by his parents and a child who gets bullied needs to feel loved and supported by his parents and see that they are also doing their part. Often parents dont want to believe that their kid is a bully or that their kid is getting bullied and take no action to stop it.
Doesn't change the schools responsibility, and did you forget many parents who know there kids are bullied (or even bully) and try to do all they can, but get nothing from the school?
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Offline sky121

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2018, 10:12:15 AM »
True they should enforce rules but Im coming from the other angle that a child who is a bully its likely because he was not raised well or was not given enough attention by his parents and a child who gets bullied needs to feel loved and supported by his parents and see that they are also doing their part. Often parents dont want to believe that their kid is a bully or that their kid is getting bullied and take no action to stop it.
Which is an argument I've seen given to my own friends when their kid was getting severely harassed in school. They were told the bully had major issues and that he was doing so much better. Which may have been true but that shouldn't mean there are no consequences.  And I don't even mean towards the bully but at least look out for the victim and try to make the situation the best possible for the kid.
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Offline sky121

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2018, 10:14:30 AM »
Doesn't change the schools responsibility, and did you forget many parents who know there kids are bullied (or even bully) and try to do all they can, but get nothing from the school?
The truth is sometimes the schools aren't aware or the parents don't know how bad things are. There are parents out there regretting not knowing, regretting not having pulled their kid out of school...with the information  Too late.

So it's not like there is some foolproof solution. But I do believe schools can and should be doing a better job of A. Teaching middos, and how to treat others in practical, daily ways. And B. Enforcing a no bully policy.
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Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2018, 10:14:46 AM »
Doesn't change the schools responsibility, and did you forget many parents who know there kids are bullied (or even bully) and try to do all they can, but get nothing from the school?

Im not saying the school is not responsible. I just think that parents like to blame schools whenever things go wrong for a child when a lot of the issues stem from poor parenting. IMO if your child is a bully, then you did something wrong when raising him. The school could have  disciplined better but that is just as much on the parents.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2018, 10:15:56 AM »
Im not saying the school is not responsible. I just think that parents like to blame schools whenever things go wrong for a child when a lot of the issues stem from poor parenting. IMO if your child is a bully, then you did something wrong when raising him. The school could have  disciplined better but that is just as much on the parents.
The bullied was the main focus.. you missed it.
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Offline chevron

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2018, 10:16:32 AM »
I've heard there were more issues than just bullying. Father lost his job, changing schools, new school didn't get paid or the registration wasn't finalized so the kids were sent home, etc.

Likely a confluence of factors here.

Painfully sad either way. Can't imagine an 11 year old feeling that desperate :'(

When I was younger,  my father lost his job to issues that he seemed moral and ethical decisions, my parents and other parents were behind on tuition, they pulled us kids out of class in the middle of the day, we sat like pariahs till our parents picked us up.

Whatever the story is, I can tell you first hand how bitter, miserable and embarrassing it is.

It will also explain my feelings of resentment to the Jewish education system that failed me.


Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2018, 10:16:43 AM »
Im not saying the school is not responsible. I just think that parents like to blame schools whenever things go wrong for a child when a lot of the issues stem from poor parenting. IMO if your child is a bully, then you did something wrong when raising him. The school could have  disciplined better but that is just as much on the parents.
Even good parents turn out bad kids.
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2018, 10:17:40 AM »
The truth is sometimes the schools aren't aware or the parents don't know how bad things are. There are parents out there regretting not knowing, regretting not having pulled their kid out of school...with the information  Too late.

So it's not like there is some foolproof solution. But I do believe schools can and should be doing a better job of A. Teaching middos, and how to treat others in practical, daily ways. And B. Enforcing a no bully policy.
Truthfully, there is no reason someone should have to be from school because he's bullied. (unless he is in some way handicapped) it's the bully who should be taken care of.
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Offline Dan

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2018, 10:18:18 AM »
When I was younger,  my father lost his job to issues that he seemed moral and ethical decisions, my parents and other parents were behind on tuition, they pulled us kids out of class in the middle of the day, we sat like pariahs till our parents picked us up.

Whatever the story is, I can tell you first hand how bitter, miserable and embarrassing it is.

It will also explain my feelings of resentment to the Jewish education system that failed me.
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Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2018, 10:21:25 AM »
Even good parents turn out bad kids.
Which is an argument I've seen given to my own friends when their kid was getting severely harassed in school. They were told the bully had major issues and that he was doing so much better. Which may have been true but that shouldn't mean there are no consequences.  And I don't even mean towards the bully but at least look out for the victim and try to make the situation the best possible for the kid.

I agree the schools are not protecting victims well enough. Raising kids is a joint effort. You cant only blame the parents and you cant only blame the schools, both are responsible.

Offline sky121

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2018, 10:21:46 AM »
When I was younger,  my father lost his job to issues that he seemed moral and ethical decisions, my parents and other parents were behind on tuition, they pulled us kids out of class in the middle of the day, we sat like pariahs till our parents picked us up.

Whatever the story is, I can tell you first hand how bitter, miserable and embarrassing it is.

It will also explain my feelings of resentment to the Jewish education system that failed me.
That's awful. Even if they wanted to punish your parents they had no reason to punish you.   All that money for a "Jewish" school...
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Offline chevron

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2018, 10:22:29 AM »
The schools won't act if the bully is a son of a wealthy or connected parent. Often those are the kids with a sense of entitlement and power.

The fact that Jewish schools tremble in fear of big donors and let some get away with stuff, shows how unfair things are.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2018, 10:23:07 AM »
Maybe i just dont get it. No one ever committed suicide from bullying when i was growing up. And there was plenty bullying going on. What is it today that makes the bullying worse than when I was growing up in a non-PC world. The names we were called and the pressures we were subjected to  was far greater than anything I see today. 

Yes it is the schools job to police the bullying and to educate that its wrong. But its not their job to raise the kid, sorry.
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: BDE 11 year old frum boy commits suicide
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2018, 10:24:53 AM »
I agree the schools are not protecting victims well enough. Raising kids is a joint effort. You cant only blame the parents and you cant only blame the schools, both are responsible.
For the child's upbringing, yes. For bullying, no.
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