Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)

[theblakdavid]

he distributes freely and easily. its worthless..............

Fits thanks
Prize for an actual answer

[imayid2]

Anyone know who Rabbi Avrohom Y. H. Kirsch is - a Dayan from brooklyn or Rav Avrohom Notis from Lancaster?
Curious about who they are as I saw their name on a Siruv (I think its called) against a bes din in lkwd with a heter arkaos against a dayan they named.
They used some strong language

I would post the notice just not sure if I should...

The one about Prime Apartments? Or is that the one against RDK?

[theblakdavid]

The one about Prime Apartments? Or is that the one against RDK?

Seems theres a few?
כ סיון
About RDM

[chevron]

Seems theres a few?
כ סיון
About RDM

Wrong thread.. unless you want to argue if 20 Sivan is 5783 or 2,560,000,453

[imayid2]

Anyone read 'The Great Z'manim Debate' by Rabbi Ahron Notis?

Looked through it over Shabbos and it's very interesting. He puts forward a compelling and impressive case that its absurd to still consider the position of Rabenu Tam regarding shkia as viable

Interesting, Rabbi Meir Mazuz discussed this in his shuir this week, said it isn’t disrespectful to say Rabenu Tam doesn’t shtim with the metzius and cannot be used at all להלכה.

[yelped]

Interesting, Rabbi Meir Mazuz discussed this in his shuir this week, said it isn’t disrespectful to say Rabenu Tam doesn’t shtim with the metzius and cannot be used at all להלכה.

Btw, I don't really understand the question from Yerushalayim. It just looks darker than it actually is because of the mountains. If you move around you will see that there is still light until much later than the earlier Zmanim.

[imayid2]

Btw, I don't really understand the question from Yerushalayim. It just looks darker than it actually is because of the mountains. If you move around you will see that there is still light until much later than the earlier Zmanim.

You can see 3 stars, that’s what counts.

[aygart]

You can see 3 stars, that’s what counts.

Is it? Even if the sun is barely below the horizon b'mishor? Maybe with large enough mountains even still above?

[imayid2]

Is it? Even if the sun is barely below the horizon b'mishor? Maybe with large enough mountains even still above?

It’s not above the horizon after sunset so I don’t know what you mean

הכסיף may still play a role though.

[aygart]

It’s not above the horizon after sunset so I don’t know what you mean

הכסיף may still play a role though.

With large enough mountains, in theory it can happen that you see stars before astronomical sunset. I imagine going this far is only theoretical and that no such place exists.

[EliJelly]

You can see 3 stars, that’s what counts.

If only we'd know for sure what the RT counted as sufficient seeing 3 stars, perhaps he was looking for smaller stars.

[imayid2]

If only we'd know for sure what the RT counted as sufficient seeing 3 stars, perhaps he was looking for smaller stars.

Nu. The sky is chock full of stars well before 72 in EY. It’s not reasonable to say they don’t qualify for midsize stars of the Gemara.

[S209]

If only we'd know for sure what the RT counted as sufficient seeing 3 stars, perhaps he was looking for smaller stars.

Nu. The sky is chock full of stars well before 72 in EY. It’s not reasonable to say they don’t qualify for midsize stars of the Gemara.

IIRC in the book he proposes that the 3 stars from the Gemara meant what we call stars, while larger than that would be what we call planets.

[EliJelly]

Anyone read 'The Great Z'manim Debate' by Rabbi Ahron Notis?

Looked through it over Shabbos and it's very interesting. He puts forward a compelling and impressive case that its absurd to still consider the position of Rabenu Tam regarding shkia as viable, since its been utterly shlugged up fot centuries now, specifically as pointed out by the Gra and the Shu'a Harav. In the era of ר״ת they simply didn't have the astronomical information that we have today. And at at the very least anything lkula should be discarded.

Random quote:

Klal Yisrael alone follows the same Torah as their ancestors did thousands of years ago, yet flourishes in the modern world. We do not have the same conflict between tradition and progress. Part of our mesorah is to value truth and not remain stuck on mistakes of earlier chachamim, as demonstrated by Rebbi who did not hesitate to say that the words of chachmei umos ha'olam appeared more correct than that of cachmei Yisrael. The Levush and the Gaon, who were not afraid to correct Rishonim who made astronomical mistakes, followed a mesorah of valuing truth with confidence. The truth of the mesorah that guides our lives and connects us with Hashem is rational, logical, and compelling. It is not threatened by correcting the mistakes of previous chachamim; it is strengthened by it. It is neither wise nor pious to engage in twisted logic to defend the opinions of Rabbeinu Tam and the Terumas Hadeshen where the Gaon clarified that they were mistaken.

I wonder if this book will incur public backlash.

@imayid2
I wonder if the author is aware of this שיטה מקובצת from the very same R"T when making the case that Chazal/Rishonim could simply be mistaken in their psakim due to lack of info that might be more available today etc, by pointing to the gemara of מחלוקת חכמי ישראל וחכמי אוה״ע and using that to prove against שיטת ר״ת.

https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=37823#p=127&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

[imayid2]

I wonder if this book will incur public backlash.

@imayid2
I wonder if the author is aware of this שיטה מקובצת from the very same R"T when making the case that Chazal/Rishonim could simply be mistaken in their psakim due to lack of info that might be more available today etc, by pointing to the gemara of מחלוקת חכמי ישראל וחכמי אוה״ע and using that to prove against שיטת ר״ת.

https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=37823#p=127&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

He literally builds his case on that!

[imayid2]

He literally builds his case on that!

He understands RT that way:

And therefore asserts we know with absolute certainty that the sun doesn’t go above the רקיע at night. So it’s proven wrong.

[EliJelly]

He understands RT that way:

And therefore asserts we know with absolute certainty that the sun doesn’t go above the רקיע at night. So it’s proven wrong.

Oy. He tries to push into the RT that the RT insisted that the חכמי ישראל were factually right, and since that's impossible then the R"T is proven wrong once again. What a mess up, what the R"T is saying is that חכמי ישראל were right DESPITE the facts seemingly showed otherwise.  What's the explanation for that? Some things are above our paygrade to understand but the words of Chazal remain true nevertheless.

Satmar Rov though gives some nice suggestions here.

https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=21046#p=337&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

[imayid2]

Oy. He tries to push into the RT that the RT insisted that the חכמי ישראל were factually right, and since that's impossible then the R"T is proven wrong once again. What a mess up, what the R"T is saying is that חכמי ישראל were right DESPITE the facts seemingly showed otherwise.  What's the explanation for that? Some things are above our paygrade to understand but the words of Chazal remain true nevertheless.

Satmar Rov though gives some nice suggestions here.

https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=21046#p=337&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

Hmm
Not a very satisfying mehalech IMHO.

.
The מנחת כהן had a different view.

[EliJelly]

Hmm
Not a very satisfying mehalech IMHO.

.
The מנחת כהן had a different view.

The מנחת כהן is addressing the RT in שיטה מקובצת, or just the general שיטת ר״ת in Tosfos? His words in שיטה מקובצת is definitely showing the other interpretation. 

[imayid2]

The מנחת כהן is addressing the RT in שיטה מקובצת, or just the general שיטת ר״ת in Tosfos? His words in שיטה מקובצת is definitely showing the other interpretation.

I’d have to check if he brings it down specifically, but he very emphatically says it regards to the view of חכמי ישראל, so I see no difference.

I do not think RT would’ve said that if he knew what we know today.