Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)

[Yehuda57]

What was the story?

https://streamable.com/6a5cda

[EliJelly]

This is very evidently based on the old כישוף thing where bad people "tied" chosson & kallah on the wedding night, whatever that means. I'm sure you're aware of this כישוף thing brought in many seforim warning against it. 

(Goldhaber has some other novel ideas which will make your head spin )

@imayid2
The unknotting was likely a sort of segulah to prevent the "tying", not based on avodah zara.

[imayid2]

@imayid2
The unknotting was likely a sort of segulah to prevent the "tying", not based on avodah zara.

Nice mareh makom, thanks

[imayid2]

'The Great Z'manim Debate' by Rabbi Ahron Notis

Ok this is going to have some feathers ruffled:

Newton's book, Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy, published in 1687, supplied a mathematical description of gravity and described the laws of motion that we observe here on earth. By applying these laws to the heliocentric model, he demonstrated that we could account for planetary motion, the uneven seasons, the tides, the trajectories of comets, the precession of the equinoxes, and other phenomena that had once seemed beyond the laws of nature. Newton's work put an end to any serious debate over heliocentrism and had a profound effect on the way that educated people in Europe viewed the world.

One of the effects of heliocentrism and mankind's newfound ability to explain and predict the motion of the planets was the abandonment of the once-universally accepted belief in astrology. The validity of astrology is debated by the Rishonim. The Tur (Yoreh Deah 179) codifies the opinion of Rambam and describes astrology as ״כזבים  שהכסילים מדמים בהם אמת״
falsehoods that fools imagine to be true," and Shulchan Aruch (ibid.) follows this approach. Although Rambam's view was a minority opinion, the Tur, writing in fourteenth- century Spain, already understood that it was the truth. It is noteworthy that although Biur Ha'Gra (ibid. 13) sharply criticized some of Rambam's rationalist views, which conflict with incidents recorded by Chazal, he did not take issue with his total rejection of astrology.

Besides, it’s inaccurate. Many heliocentrics were practicing astrologers, including Copernicus. The demise of Astrology isn’t directly related.

[imayid2]

He goes so far as to say he finds Rebbi to be more correct than the Chachamim but not because of his stated reason, rather because of science. He basically insinuates the Rakia is nothing more than a fantasy believed in by Chazal which has since been disproven. He does try to show respect when stating this.

I’m progressing through the book and just want to point out that this critique isn’t fair at all IMO. This isn’t *him* who makes that point. Rav Hai Gaon and Rav Shrira Gaon (aka the Geonim) say that this is why they disregard the braissa the RT based his shitta on. They literally say that we can’t accept it because we know that the sun isn’t blocked by any Rakia, and they give other reasons, based on science, than Rebi’s stated reason.

[yfr bachur]

I do think it’s been gaining traction in recent years.

From the haskama of Rav Yisrael Reisman:


That’s about alos but I believe it’s related.

R' Dovid Braunfeld states clearly (in dvar yom) that he found ZERO evidence for this (72 min alos) ever being the minhag anywhere pre war

[Ver hut gazugt]

Ok this is going to have some feathers ruffled:Besides, it’s inaccurate. Many heliocentrics were practicing astrologers, including Copernicus. The demise of Astrology isn’t directly related.

this is not taken as fact by many.

[imayid2]

this is not taken as fact by many.

Not sure what you mean, the heliocentric model or Astrology?
Neither is the world being round, plenty of flat earthers out there.

[Ver hut gazugt]

Not sure what you mean, the heliocentric model or Astrology?
Neither is the world being round, plenty of flat earthers out there.

heliocentric model and you can’t compare the two.
AFAIK the Gemara says the earth is round

[imayid2]

heliocentric model.

Ok, I assume the amount of people that don’t believe in that is similar to flat earth.

[Ver hut gazugt]

Ok, I assume the amount of people that don’t believe in that is similar to flat earth.

not sure about people but yiddin plenty do and for good reason.

[Ver hut gazugt]

Ok, I assume the amount of people that don’t believe in that is similar to flat earth.

you can’t compare the two. One we can see and one is based on the best we know. No hard evidence.

[imayid2]

you can’t compare the two. One we can see and one is based on the best we know. No hard evidence.

So why does everyone believe it besides for flat earthers?

[imayid2]

What about spontaneous generation? Do you believe in spontaneous generation?

[imayid2]

AFAIK the Gemara says the earth is round

It is not clear, can be interpreted as a sphere or disk.
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/40152/sources-for-the-world-being-round-in-the-gemara

[Ver hut gazugt]

What about spontaneous generation? Do you believe in spontaneous generation?

yes anything else. ( I know it’s debated what it means or if it a deferent species of lice etc.)

[Ver hut gazugt]

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/112226/jewish/Issues-in-Torah-and-Science.htm

[Ver hut gazugt]

[imayid2]

yes anything else.

Look, I respect that you need to believe these things, but to most of the world that’s nuts.

[Ver hut gazugt]

https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/2046989/jewish/Does-the-Sun-Really-Revolve-Around-the-Earth.htm