Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)

[ben89]

Lots of stuff don't make any sense. The tanaaim and amoraim argue with each other constantly and call each other liars effectively

are you implying that you are on the level of the tanaaim or amoraim?

[chevron]

The Gemara clearly states that Rabbi Pereidah lived 400 years. You may want to take issue with the Gemara as well. And since we are close to Purim, Rashi says that Mordechai was on the Sanhedrin during the first Bais Hamikdash, was in the story of Purim, and was still a leader of Klal Yisrael during the seige of Hyrcanus and Aristobulus, during Rome’s ascendency when he would be well over 400 years old...

Yes modchai's age was discussed. My issue with chaggai is not as much age but what I wrote earlier, Rambam says shimon hatzadik was the last of anshei keneses hagedola

[chevron]

are you implying that you are on the level of the tanaaim or amoraim?

Did you stop beating your wife ?

[chevron]

@chevron You say:

Yet you also write:
Which (IINM) most around here would find an extremely problematic statement. So you might be the one engaged in Loshon Hora here (against Rabbi Smith).

In any event, I think you should find a way to read comments, even those responding, arguing or refuting your statements, and not take them as attacks.

So let's try to simplify your issue/question in your OP: When it is stated that someone lived a few hundred years, does it not make sense to you? Why? Is it in all cases? Only after a certain period? What length of lifespan is it that starts to become "it doesn't make sense" (which sounds like a blanket statement as if there's a problem with the statement of fact) versus "I can't understand it" (which is a personal questioning of the stated facts which seem to contradict your understandings otherwise)?

Yes "you" i.e. ME... his response was, either I believe in nevua or I dont.

[ben89]

Did you stop beating your wife ?

?
Great comeback to not answer my question. You understand clearly that what a tanna said has nothing to do with what we could say.

[Yammer]

That's why we first say "ein keilokeinu" and only then, once we've established that, do we ask "mi keilokeinu?"

This was how I was taught poshut pshat

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?
Great comeback to not answer my question. You understand clearly that what a tanna said has nothing to do with what we could say.

Sure. I have a duty to question everything.


Do you talk in shull? if yes, do you believe in God ? because clearly you dont respect him

[hvaces42]

Sure. I have a duty to question everything.


Do you talk in shull? if yes, do you believe in God ? because clearly you dont respect him

Saying the Word of G-d doesnt make sense is equally, if not more disrespectful.

Having said that, Talking in shul is terribly disruptive. I know i was guilty of it and our Rav worked terribly hard to make me and my friends stop...and we BH, for the most part did. When I now go to other shuls and people talk during leining it now distirbs me as well. However, that is not the be all and end all litmus test of whether one respects G-d or not.

[skyguy918]

Can I ask a silly question, all the way from the first post of this thread?

Where is this Rambam?

According to the Rambam, Chaggai lived until the destruction of the second Beis Hamikdash.

[MrKaplan]

Shouldnt the title be Torah stuff that I don't understand?

[ben89]

Shouldnt the title be Torah stuff that I don't understand?

lol

[ben89]

Do you talk in shul?

no

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Shouldnt the title be Torah stuff that I don't understand?

I guess you don't understand the title. 

[chevron]

Can I ask a silly question, all the way from the first post of this thread?

Where is this Rambam?

Very good point, I asked someone fluent in the rambam and he doesn't recall.. Maybe the ou messed up? But per @cmey it's in yerushalmi.

My question is then how literal is this?  Though Pinchas lived very long. Maybe chagai was a spirit ?

iI hhave no issue accepting someone lived 600 yyears as unnatural as that is. I just have a hard time understanding a navi living that long and disappearing from public life and history. Why would he give him hhis leadership role? 

[chevron]

Did Ruth live 300+ years? (see tal. baba batra 91b - she was alive after Abshalom becomes king)...?

שנאמר (מלכים א ב, יט) וישם כסא לאם המלך וא"ר אלעזר לאמה של מלכות

רשב"ם - זו רות המואביה - שנקראת על שבט יהודה כלומר בנים שיצאו ממנה.

[chevron]

See radak "rachok meod" far fetched.

He must be a heretic like me

[Eliyohu]

Very good point, I asked someone fluent in the rambam and he doesn't recall.. Maybe the ou messed up? But per @cmey it's in yerushalmi.

My question is then how literal is this?  Though Pinchas lived very long. Maybe chagai was a spirit ?

iI hhave no issue accepting someone lived 600 yyears as unnatural as that is. I just have a hard time understanding a navi living that long and disappearing from public life and history. Why would he give him his leadership role?

Can it be as simple as the same reason that the nevua that was transmitted is a tiny fraction of what there was. And the only stuff written are things that are nogeia L'doros..

[chevron]

Can it be as simple as the same reason that the nevua that was transmitted is a tiny fraction of what there was. And the only stuff written are things that are nogeia L'doros..

I've been thinking and discussing that too...becsuse there were hundreds of true neviim that aren't in the canon.

Ovadiya saved 100 prophets alone.

Still, I'm not saying its not true. I said it doesn't make sense.

Maybe because I live in 2018 where we micro focus on every aged rebbe and rav but I can't believe that.. They visited aged taanaim and amoraim etc.
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i just don't understand how chagai who was a chain in the mesorah or Mordecai could exist for hundreds of years and this all not recorded nor were they contributing Torah etc?

[Eliyohu]

I've been thinking and discussing that too...becsuse there were hundreds of true neviim that aren't in the canon.

Ovadiya saved 100 prophets alone.

Still, I'm not saying its not true. I said it doesn't make sense.

Maybe because I live in 2018 where we micro focus on every aged rebbe and rav but I can't believe that.. They visited aged taanaim and amoraim etc.
.
i just don't understand how chagai who was a chain in the mesorah or Mordecai could exist for hundreds of years and this all not recorded nor were they contributing Torah etc?

You're issue in a nutshell is you can't fathom that there wasn't social media and paparazzi around every aged Rabbi a there is today and documenting their lives? We see very clearly only things that were important L'doros were written, even megillas Esther wasn't so simple, who knows if we'd have ever heard of the story..  had Esther not gotten her way...

[cmey]

Very good point, I asked someone fluent in the rambam and he doesn't recall.. Maybe the ou messed up? But per @cmey it's in yerushalmi.

My question is then how literal is this?  Though Pinchas lived very long. Maybe chagai was a spirit ?

iI hhave no issue accepting someone lived 600 yyears as unnatural as that is. I just have a hard time understanding a navi living that long and disappearing from public life and history. Why would he give him hhis leadership role?

That’s because it’s a misquote. The yerushalmi and bavli are merely brought as a basis by some to say that Rabbi Dosa and Chaggai met each other. The Rambam (its in the hakdama miseder zeraim haperek harivi’i) learns that Rav Dosa was in the generation of Shimon Hatzadik (and therefore chaggai) and it was Rav Dosa who lived until the time of Rabbi Akiva...