Author Topic: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)  (Read 18706 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #405 on: March 25, 2018, 11:51:51 AM »
That is not contradictory to what I wrote.
Was not trying to say it was.
To say that G-d made a miracle because he is a fan of that team is belittling.
My point is I/we have no idea why miracles happen.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #406 on: March 25, 2018, 11:53:53 AM »
Do miracles really happen?

"No. 11 Loyola's unbelievable run with Sister Jean at the spiritual helm, there's been no shortage of surprises this year."
Miracles do happen.

FTR, I have no idea what the quote you bring means, but I have been reading some of the discussion that ensued.

My .02:

G-d uses (in general) three ways to run his world.

1. Nature, which was created by G-d, with its infinitely complex set of rules and interactions. And which G-d decided to create and run the world most of the time, in a way that could conceal his hand, up to the extent of a Stephen Hawking denying G-d's existence. 
2. Miracles which are enclothed in nature, which means that for whatever reason G-d decided to tilt nature a certain way (out of various possibilities) which might not be obvious to be miraculous, but upon proper examination one might realize a divine intervention in a set of otherwise seemingly natural occurrences.
3. Miracles which appear in a way that is obvious to anyone, clearly going counter to what would be anticipated as a natural set of occurrences.

Regardless of which one of the methods above is used, it is all G-d's doing.

Our yearning for the ultimate redemption, is for a time where category 1 will no-longer conceal G-d's hand, but will actually reveal it to all in the most obvious way to all. That is why it is called in Hebrew גאולה, which contains all the letter of גולה - exile, with one added letter, an Aleph, which refers to G-d. The world will exist just as we know it today, but rather than conceal G-dliness, it will reveal it everywhere.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #407 on: March 25, 2018, 11:55:54 AM »
Can you explain?
If you believe in 100% free will like me everything happens because of the choices we make. A miracle can change that choice we make.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #408 on: March 25, 2018, 11:56:29 AM »
Was not trying to say it was.My point is I/we have no idea why miracles happen.
Then we are close to the same page. He could make a team miraculously win in order to reward someone who is undeserving of a more substantive reward or the like
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #409 on: March 25, 2018, 12:00:17 PM »
That is not contradictory to what I wrote. To say that G-d made a miracle because he is a fan of that team is belittling.
Chassidus teaches us that divine providence exists everywhere, including in a falling leaf.

I won't go into the "fan" discussion now, but G-d definitely has a purpose in everything that happens. It might not be the team, it might be the current discussion that ensued as a result, or it might be something totally different. We don't know. What we do know is that G-d runs the world in the way he sees fit, and it is up to us to choose to acknowledge it.

As mentioned above, I also know nothing about this team or what might have happened that CM might be referring to as a miracle. I don't see how it really matters if it's seen as a miracle or not.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #410 on: March 25, 2018, 12:02:04 PM »
Chassidus teaches us that divine providence exists everywhere, including in a falling leaf.

I won't go into the "fan" discussion now, but G-d definitely has a purpose in everything that happens. It might not be the team, it might be the current discussion that ensued as a result, or it might be something totally different. We don't know. What we do know is that G-d runs the world in the way he sees fit, and it is up to us to choose to acknowledge it.

As mentioned above, I also know nothing about this team or what might have happened that CM might be referring to as a miracle. I don't see how it really matters if it's seen as a miracle or not.
Don't need chassidus for that one.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #411 on: March 25, 2018, 12:03:08 PM »
Then we are close to the same page. He could make a team miraculously win in order to reward someone who is undeserving of a more substantive reward or the like
I hope you don't think I was serious about a miracle in my OP.

It is just odd how we look at these things. Remember the post about the plane crash and the one passenger that didn't fly because of Shabbos? Some in that DDMS post called it a miracle. You think those same individuals that called it a miracle would feel the same way if it was a Catholic that didn't fly over Easter?
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #412 on: March 25, 2018, 12:08:25 PM »
It is just odd how we look at these things. Remember the post about the plane crash and the one passenger that didn't fly because of Shabbos? Some in that DDMS post called it a miracle. You think those same individuals that called it a miracle would feel the same way if it was a Catholic that didn't fly over Easter?

That is an interesting question. Maimonides might be alluding to such a question here (last 4 paragraphs).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #413 on: March 25, 2018, 12:16:26 PM »
Maimonides might be alluding to such a question here (last 4 paragraphs).
Interesting read which as you might guess I don't agree with most of it. I do think we all can agree on this.
"Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the power of man to comprehend, for His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts, our thoughts."
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #414 on: March 25, 2018, 12:20:47 PM »
Interesting read which as you might guess I don't agree with most of it. I do think we all can agree on this.
"Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the power of man to comprehend, for His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts, our thoughts."
I don't think you'll have one person disagreeing on that point. Even Stephen Hawking would probably agree on that (once he gets past his arrogance of trying to deny the Creator).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #415 on: March 25, 2018, 12:25:11 PM »
I don't think you'll have one person disagreeing on that point. Even Stephen Hawking would probably agree on that (once he gets past his arrogance of trying to deny the Creator).
Not sure why the uproar over him. He just believes in something else.
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Offline Definitions

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #416 on: May 27, 2018, 03:25:26 AM »
Has anybody ever been bothered by the fact that in bamidbar and naso when klal yisroel is counted the numbers are always whole (mostly 100's and 1000's)? I find it extremely unprobable that if you take a few random groups of people that it will come out to such numbers by all of them.

I had this question for a long time and last year I finally found one sefer that speaks about it. If I remember correctly it was called באמונה שלמה. I unfortunately didn't go through it clearly because the sefer was in the bais medrash and I was embarrassed to be seen with it.

But I did see that he was totally against the one תירוץ that I thought of and liked the most. Understandably so, as I wasn't too excited to say it myself since it's a dangerous answer. I thought that maybe the exact numbers of people was actually higher than what was written down by some, just that it was rounded down. So each shevet had the numbers stated but possibly with more.

He wrote down that this answer is 100% kefira and the question is based on a misunderstanding of the basics in emuna. I barely remember anything he wrote. Something that it's not like there is a random number of people present rather it's that Hashem said that this is the amount of people (20+) that should be there or something like that. He also brought down a maharsha someplace that says a similar answer for something else and explains how that is different than this.

Anybody familiar?
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Offline Boruch999

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #417 on: May 27, 2018, 06:25:31 AM »
Has anybody ever been bothered by the fact that in bamidbar and naso when klal yisroel is counted the numbers are always whole (mostly 100's and 1000's)? I find it extremely unprobable that if you take a few random groups of people that it will come out to such numbers by all of them.

I had this question for a long time and last year I finally found one sefer that speaks about it. If I remember correctly it was called באמונה שלמה. I unfortunately didn't go through it clearly because the sefer was in the bais medrash and I was embarrassed to be seen with it.

But I did see that he was totally against the one תירוץ that I thought of and liked the most. Understandably so, as I wasn't too excited to say it myself since it's a dangerous answer. I thought that maybe the exact numbers of people was actually higher than what was written down by some, just that it was rounded down. So each shevet had the numbers stated but possibly with more.

He wrote down that this answer is 100% kefira and the question is based on a misunderstanding of the basics in emuna. I barely remember anything he wrote. Something that it's not like there is a random number of people present rather it's that Hashem said that this is the amount of people (20+) that should be there or something like that. He also brought down a maharsha someplace that says a similar answer for something else and explains how that is different than this.

Anybody familiar?

I've had this question for a while.

That the numbers were rounded occurred to me and without seeing his argument, I can't see why that would be kefira.  The Torah rounds numbers elsewhere.  Moshe Rabbenu said שש מאות אלף רגלי, forty makos.  However, I disregarded this as answer because the counting of the Leviim also comes to a round number and is clearly not rounded as seen from the cheshbon of bechorim vs Leviim.

The medrish (precises source would be appreciated) says that at matan torah am yisrael saw the malochim arranged in formations in honor of Hashem and they desired to arrange themselves in formation as well. Hashem acceded to their desire and gave the instructions for their formations. Perhaps Hashem caused the numbers to be round in order to be conducive to the formations. 

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #418 on: May 27, 2018, 07:25:35 AM »
I hope you don't think I was serious about a miracle in my OP.

It is just odd how we look at these things. Remember the post about the plane crash and the one passenger that didn't fly because of Shabbos? Some in that DDMS post called it a miracle. You think those same individuals that called it a miracle would feel the same way if it was a Catholic that didn't fly over Easter?
Replace miracle with Hashgocha Protis

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #419 on: May 27, 2018, 09:04:48 AM »







.... I finally found one sefer that speaks about it. If I remember correctly it was called באמונה שלמה. I unfortunately didn't go through it clearly because the sefer was in the bais medrash and I was embarrassed to be seen with it.



Can you please elaborate on the nature of this embarrassment? So strange