Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)

[Moshe Green]

I'd love for some examples (like 5 or more). Out of curiosity...

i dont remember because the last time i bought it was about 15 years ago. but im sure that the fellows here in the thread can help you with some. some were already said earlier.

[Mordyk]

Don't like it?  Don't buy it.

[Euclid]

i dont remember because the last time i bought it was about 15 years ago. but im sure that the fellows here in the thread can help you with some. some were already said earlier.

Wimpy way out of a bold statement. Especially for someone so concerned about LH.

[AsherO]

I'd love for some examples (like 5 or more). Out of curiosity...

Ironically anyone who makes this claim and can cite multiple recent examples is a hypocrite. It’s a catch-22 of sorts.

[Euclid]

Ironically anyone who makes this claim and can cite multiple recent examples is a hypocrite. It’s a catch-22 of sorts.

I don't care about recent. Just was curious about the "every single week" aspect.

[AsherO]

I don't care about recent. Just was curious about the "every single week" aspect.

Maybe the question is how anyone can make that claim if they don’t buy it regularly (anymore?).

[Yehuda57]

Toeles
Toy-eh-less
adjective

1) Meets an individual's personal agenda
"My post that @Something Fishy is a liar and a cheat was not gossip, it was l'toeles; so that no one goes on his trips. It had nothing to do with my ongoing feud with his mother in law."

[yelped]

"@YitzyS: How to get more likes for the same post".

[YitzyS]

"@YitzyS: How to get more likes for the same post".

Don't worry, I've done this in the past.

[Moshe Green]

Wimpy way out of a bold statement. Especially for someone so concerned about LH.

well... i actually almost used to get a heart attack every time i read it. Every time my wife saw me throw a fit and start ranting and raving like a wild maniac she would ask me which page i just read... that's why i stopped buying it...

[Moshe Green]

I'd love for some examples (like 5 or more) [of problems with the Mishpacha]. Out of curiosity...

ok. an interview with palley just came out. here's some quotable quotes:

https://youtu.be/kPb6CBf8Pc0?t=353
"After i got married i knew i wanted to continue learning in yeshiva, going to a kollel with the coffee and cigarettes' was not for me"
My comment: Wow, he really respects kollel guys...

https://youtu.be/kPb6CBf8Pc0?t=746
"Because a kollel avreich cannot work legally without going to the army he is forced to stay in Kollel full time and not work. I am out to fix this... {paraphrased}
My comment: Avreichim have no problem (as he himself did) with working illegally. Perhaps just maybe they want to learn full time???

https://youtu.be/kPb6CBf8Pc0?t=1482
"They would get the Gedoilim to write letters saying to read only Kosher publications and then they would explain those letters to mean that people shouldn't read Mishpacha" {i.e. the gabbaim would interpret the gedolim to say mishpacha was bad but really the gedolim were behind it}
My comment: He's lying through his teeth. This is always what the apikorism say."The Rabbanim really back us but they are too stupid and are tricked..." Here's a link to just one of the bans: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/113410/maran-rav-elyashiv-calls-for-a-ban-against-mishpacha-magazine.html where R' Elyashiv Zt"L himself signed... There were many more bans from other gedolim as well.

https://youtu.be/kPb6CBf8Pc0?t=2089
"My dream was to put pictures of women in the English Mishpacha but people told me not to do it... i was very disappointed. Why is this? Why can't we put pictures of women?"
https://youtu.be/kPb6CBf8Pc0?t=2327
"When we thought Clinton would become president we had an excuse to put a picture in... i was hoping for it"
My Comment: His dream is to knock down the Chareidi chumras?

https://youtu.be/kPb6CBf8Pc0?t=2509
"Recently, i've talked with woman about the issue of pictures of women, not just from a feminist standpoint, which is legitimate..."
My Comment: It is?

https://youtu.be/kPb6CBf8Pc0?t=3981
"I just met with the Chief Rabbi of the Police and he asked me how can we make the relationship with the Chareidim better, especially after Covid. I suggested that we make a movement to get Chareidim to volunteer in the police force"
My comment: Do you really think the Gedolei Hador are ok with this? Also, how about the police stop beating Chareidim for no reason as an idea how to make the relationship better? It's like the rabbi telling the battered wife to make her husband a potato kugel so he won't beat her...

https://youtu.be/kPb6CBf8Pc0?t=4910
"We are challenging the [Jewish] publications, especially the conservative ones, dealing with issues that weren't acceptable in the Chareidi society..."
My Comment: Doesn't sound too Chareidi to me.

[Happyguy]

I didn't listen to the interviews but based on what you wrote it doesn't sound too good.....

[Yehuda57]

ok. an interview with palley just came out. here's some quotable quotes:

I haven't listened to the interview and I'm neither a Mishpacha reader nor apologist. But these critiques are mostly nothingburgers at best, and quite blatantly only problematic for you based on prior conceptions. You got so mad about a magazine your wife had to tell you to stop reading, yet you can't even provide one example of what made you so angry.

[YitzyS]

these critiques are mostly nothingburgers at best

-1

Yes, if they were published in the magazine, you maybe could brush over them. But to me, they shine a light on the goal of the publisher, which depicts what he aims to do with his magazine.

No, it doesn't automatically pasul his magazine. But knowing his magazine, these hashkafos answer a lot of questions...

[JlmBoi]

nothingburgers at best

Some of them do point towards him having decidedly non chareidi views

[EliJelly]

I haven't listened to the interview and I'm neither a Mishpacha reader nor apologist. But these critiques are mostly nothingburgers at best, and quite blatantly only problematic for you based on prior conceptions. You got so mad about a magazine your wife had to tell you to stop reading, yet you can't even provide one example of what made you so angry.

Maybe the the readership of Mishpacha at large share his prior conceptions? For those these are real issues. I don't buy the Mishpacha and I don't really know who their core clientele is but I do know that these would be a big issue both for mainstream chassidim and for frum sincere Litvish bnei Torah.

[Yehuda57]

What are these "chareidi views" people speak of? Publishing pictures of women is a big one, and hearing people try explain the source and value of that rule is always extremely underwhelming (at best). I'm clearly biased on this issue, but there is plenty of evidence of pictures of women in "Chareidi" magazines and newspapers of yesteryear.

And yes, "feminists" can be right about a specific issue even if you disagree with everything else they say. And what is a feminist? What does OP think a feminist is? What does Paley think it means? First wave feminism? or second or third wave? Or maybe everyone is using terms differently and just the use of that word caused a visceral reaction from OP that may have had nothing to do with what Paley was saying.

The comments about kollel are total nothingburgers - even the most pro-kollel person will readily admit there are plenty of people smoking cigarettes and wasting their time. That's not to say all are, or even that many are, just that some are.

That comment comparing Chareidi representation in the police force to making a wife become a potato kugel was just weird and makes no sense at all.

And why is challenging conservative publications not Chareidi? Because of a preconceived notion of what he means by conservative, and what he means by "challenging."

The one area that isn't a nothingburger to me are the "bans" by gedolim. I have zero knowledge of this. If it is correct that the bans were made by them based on accurate info, then obviously that is damning. But it is well known that such bans are often made based on the gadol being fed misinformation or they are taken out of context (and often simply fabricated).

[aygart]

The magazine very clearly pushed a feminist agenda glorifying a career woman as an ends in and of itself. There have been cover features glorifying divorce and single motherhood etc. He is very obviously trying to use the magazine to advance an agenda.

[zh cohen]

The problem that I (and I think many others) have with the Mishpacha is their lack of honesty.

They presented themselves as one thing in order to get into people's homes, and then slowly started pushing their agenda of "liberalization."

I didn't watch the interview, but the quotes posted seem to indicate that this move is deliberate, not a natural evolution.

[Moshe Green]

Maybe the the readership of Mishpacha at large share his prior conceptions?

that could be. we were discussing the mishpacha and i was asked for examples of its anti-torah viewpoints. if a conservative jew or lefty modern orthodox one wants to enjoy it, go right ahead. its more kosher than the nyt or wapo.

What are these "chareidi views" people speak of? Publishing pictures of women is a big one, and hearing people try explain the source and value of that rule is always extremely underwhelming (at best). I'm clearly biased on this issue, but there is plenty of evidence of pictures of women in "Chareidi" magazines and newspapers of yesteryear.

And yes, "feminists" can be right about a specific issue even if you disagree with everything else they say. And what is a feminist? What does OP think a feminist is? What does Paley think it means? First wave feminism? or second or third wave? Or maybe everyone is using terms differently and just the use of that word caused a visceral reaction from OP that may have had nothing to do with what Paley was saying.

The comments about kollel are total nothingburgers - even the most pro-kollel person will readily admit there are plenty of people smoking cigarettes and wasting their time. That's not to say all are, or even that many are, just that some are.

That comment comparing Chareidi representation in the police force to making a wife become a potato kugel was just weird and makes no sense at all.

And why is challenging conservative publications not Chareidi? Because of a preconceived notion of what he means by conservative, and what he means by "challenging."

The one area that isn't a nothingburger to me are the "bans" by gedolim. I have zero knowledge of this. If it is correct that the bans were made by them based on accurate info, then obviously that is damning. But it is well known that such bans are often made based on the gadol being fed misinformation or they are taken out of context (and often simply fabricated).

its very clear that you didnt watch the interview.

publishing woman is now accepted as a non starter in chareidi publications. for whatever reason, its a chumra that was taken on. if he is "dreaming" of the chance to put one in that shows that hes trying to rip down that wall. again. all we are trying to prove is that he goes against the chareidi worldview.

feminism can mean whatever you want it to be. but if you are being interviewed and putting pictures of women in the paper is
legitimate if its for feminist reasons, then you aren't going with the torah views.

if you just hear one comment, your right about kollelim. but he has made it his mission to get avreichim out of kollellim.

regarding potato kugel. if you dont understand than you have to change your recipe 

regarding challanging conservative views. you didnt even finish the rest of the quote. he says "We are challenging the [Jewish] publications, especially the conservative ones, dealing with issues that weren't acceptable in the Chareidi society..."

watch the whole interview and then you can form your own opinion of mishpacha