Author Topic: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)  (Read 20753 times)

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1681
  • Total likes: 171
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #165 on: February 26, 2018, 02:26:06 PM »
At least you aren't necessarily on an agenda So lets hang up signs, and piss the h*ll out of everyone not to cross their legs

I have no agenda's. If I come to shull, i'm 100% late or the davening is over, but I keep my mouth shut.

It took years to finish the shull... then they sold seats for 3,600. Meh! I had a better idea years ago.. told them to offer extra legroom and reclining seats for 15k.. building would have been done 10 years ago

Offline davidrotts63

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 7080
  • Total likes: 780
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 26
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Hertz Gold, Hyatt Member, BA Blue, Ebay banned, Amazon Prime
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #166 on: February 26, 2018, 02:28:51 PM »


I have no agenda's. If I come to shull, i'm 100% late or the davening is over, but I keep my mouth shut.



And what tells you one is better then the other?
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1681
  • Total likes: 171
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #167 on: February 26, 2018, 02:29:24 PM »
Chabad shulls need to say this.. saw a sign hanging in the chabad shull in LA as 50% of the shull shmoozed so maybe not



Quote
    מי שברך אבותינו, אברהם יצחק ויעקב, משה ואהרן, דוד ושלמה, הוא יברך את כל מי ששומר פיו ולשונו שלא לדבר בעת התפילה, הקב"ה ישמרהו מכל צרה וצוקה ומכל נגע ומחלה, ויחולו עליו כל הברכות הכתובות בספר תורת משה רבינו ובכל ספרי הנביאים והכתובים, ויזכה לראות בנים חיים וקימים ויגדלם לתורה לחופה ולמעשים טובים, ויעבוד את ה' אלוהינו תמיד באמת ובתמים ונאמר אמן. ‏

He who blessed our forefather Avraham, Yitzchak and Yaakov, Moshe and Aaron, David and Shlomo, he will bless those who guard their mouth and tongue from speaking during prayers. the Holy One Blessed be He shall guard him from every trouble and distress and from every plague and illness, and he shall be subject to all the blessings written in the Torah of Moshe and all the Prophets and Scriptures, and he will merit live and healthy children whom he shall educated to nurture them to [become] Torah [scholars], marry them off and educate them to do good deeds, and he shall eternally serve Hashem truthfully. Amen. sincerely

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1681
  • Total likes: 171
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #168 on: February 26, 2018, 02:30:08 PM »

And what tells you one is better then the other?

Its better to miss shull than not talk but its not a binary option for me. I just procasinate

Offline smart man

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 197
  • Total likes: 21
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #169 on: February 26, 2018, 02:30:32 PM »
Once we're off topic... Where does no talking in shul come from. Always thought it was only an issue during davening.

Offline davidrotts63

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 7080
  • Total likes: 780
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 26
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Hertz Gold, Hyatt Member, BA Blue, Ebay banned, Amazon Prime
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #170 on: February 26, 2018, 02:30:51 PM »


Its better to miss shull than not talk but its not a binary option for me. I just procasinate

This is according to who? It's your own opinion?
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline davidrotts63

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 7080
  • Total likes: 780
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 26
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Hertz Gold, Hyatt Member, BA Blue, Ebay banned, Amazon Prime
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #171 on: February 26, 2018, 02:32:28 PM »
Once we're off topic... Where does no talking in shul come from. Always thought it was only an issue during davening.
Quite the contrary, AFAIK the only מקור for no talking, is from a דין בית הכנסת which isn't our AFAIK isn't our shuls.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1681
  • Total likes: 171
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #172 on: February 26, 2018, 02:42:15 PM »
Once we're off topic... Where does no talking in shul come from. Always thought it was only an issue during davening.
https://torah.org/torah-portion/weekly-halacha-5771-mishpatim/
Quote
1.Shulchan Aruch rules that idle talk is forbidden in shul even when prayers are not being recited[2]. Idle talk includes conversation about one’s livelihood or other essential needs[3]. Nowadays there is some room for leniency concerning such talk, since some Rishonim rule that shuls are generally built with a “precondition” allowing them to be used for essential matters other than davening[4].
Quote
3.Talking during prayers causes a chillul Hashem, since it unfortunately lends support to the widely held perception that non-Jews are more careful than Jews to maintain proper decorum in their houses of worship[6].

@ChaimMoskowitz  can you take one for the team and talk more during services


Offline gingyguy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 1418
  • Total likes: 403
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: I don't like to brag
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #173 on: February 26, 2018, 02:45:55 PM »
Chabad shulls need to say this.. saw a sign hanging in the chabad shull in LA as 50% of the shull shmoozed so maybe not
this מי שברך was written by the תוס יוט after he had a dream that the reason for the crusades was talking in shul during davening
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline smart man

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 197
  • Total likes: 21
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #174 on: February 26, 2018, 03:01:06 PM »
https://torah.org/torah-portion/weekly-halacha-5771-mishpatim/
Well I personally think they should have picked their fights better and not create a no talking in shul project, but creating a no talking during davening or chazoras hashatz project. Fwiu the mishna berura says only to scream at someone that talks during chazoras hashatz. Cmiiw.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6669
  • Total likes: 1046
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #175 on: February 26, 2018, 03:07:23 PM »
@ChaimMoskowitz  can you take one for the team and talk more during services
I found putting on my headphones and listening to music works best. Then can talk all they want.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 236
  • Total likes: 111
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #176 on: February 26, 2018, 03:37:13 PM »
But it wasn't and I apologize. But the constant attacks on me are as stupid. I just have a lot of questions and maybe lots of uncomfortable ideas but I also have rabbinic guidance in my life.. (renowned rabbanim for that matter)  to say that I'm a heretic because I ask questions is quite silly.

Any ways, this should have been in general discussion in appropriate thread.. Apologies. Grateful to @cmey

Looked up the chazon ish. Though I'll stick with the rambams comments on achiya hashiloni as the one that lived very long.

Does it mean, the others didn't?  No.. Do I find it hard to believe?  I'll just echo the radak " ze rachok meod" maybe they did.. But apparently it's not relevant unless they hide some missing Torah we want to uncover

Any thinking person should have questions. I have many. Some I’ve found an answer to. Others I don’t yet have the answer but I know that just as there is an answer to the former, there is an answer to the latter as well. It’s how one asks the question that is important. The sum total of human intelligence and knowledge is so minuscule as compared to the vast amount there is to know in the universe that it is barely significant. I believe that chazal and the Torah giants stretching back to Har Sinai had a connection to a source of knowledge greater than anything that can be humanly acquired. It doesn’t mean that one shouldn’t ask questions, but it means that one should approach such questions with humility and the knowledge that it is ok not to understand, yet to accept that there is an answer as well.


בספרו של הר' יעקב גלינסקי ע"ה 'והגדת – 'הגדה של פסח' – רעיונות ולקחים, סיפורים ומשלים", מצינו (עמ' 84):

"בעל התניא זצ"ל השתתף בשמחת נישואין. כמנהג, היה שם בדחן ששמח את המסובין בחרוזים, וכטוב לבו בוודקה החל משמיע דברי תוכחה נוקבים, לא חסך שבט לשונו, הצליף באמרי פיו. הוקיע מידות ותכונות, הנהגות ומעשים, וקבלו תוכחתו ברוח טובה. אהבת תוכחה, מקניני תורה. רק על בעל ה'תניא' דלג, וזה כה מובן. מי יעז להיכוות בגחלתו! אבל אם קנין תורה היא, נחון בה בעל ה'תניא' במידה גדושה. "מדוע דלגת עלי", תבע. "אמור את אשר בליבך!". הוודקה התירה את חרצבות לשונו של הבדחן. נענה ואמר: "וכי מה יתרונו של הרבי עלינו? ידיעת התורה שלו, בנגלה ובנסתר! ואני שאול: האמנם כן?! הבה נבחן – הרי מה שאני יודע, גם הרבי יודע – ומה שהרבי לא יודע, גם אני איני יודע. אלא מאי? רבים הדברים שהרבי יודע, ואני איני יודע?! מה בכך?! והלא רבים לאין שיעור הדברים, שגם הרבי וגם אני איננו יודעים!" פרץ הבדחן בבכי, והרבי בכה לעמתו..."


Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 6886
  • Total likes: 1291
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #177 on: February 26, 2018, 03:52:55 PM »
Any thinking person should have questions. I have many. Some I’ve found an answer to. Others I don’t yet have the answer but I know that just as there is an answer to the former, there is an answer to the latter as well. It’s how one asks the question that is important. The sum total of human intelligence and knowledge is so minuscule as compared to the vast amount there is to know in the universe that it is barely significant. I believe that chazal and the Torah giants stretching back to Har Sinai had a connection to a source of knowledge greater than anything that can be humanly acquired. It doesn’t mean that one shouldn’t ask questions, but it means that one should approach such questions with humility and the knowledge that it is ok not to understand, yet to accept that there is an answer as well.
Well said.

Of note is the saying attributed to R' Hillel of Paritsch who was a great Chossid, and even wrote some of his own Chassidus discourses, who said that when compared to the Alter Rebbe, the cat and I (meaning R' Hillel) are equals.


בספרו של הר' יעקב גלינסקי ע"ה 'והגדת – 'הגדה של פסח' – רעיונות ולקחים, סיפורים ומשלים", מצינו (עמ' 84):

"בעל התניא זצ"ל השתתף בשמחת נישואין. כמנהג, היה שם בדחן ששמח את המסובין בחרוזים, וכטוב לבו בוודקה החל משמיע דברי תוכחה נוקבים, לא חסך שבט לשונו, הצליף באמרי פיו. הוקיע מידות ותכונות, הנהגות ומעשים, וקבלו תוכחתו ברוח טובה. אהבת תוכחה, מקניני תורה. רק על בעל ה'תניא' דלג, וזה כה מובן. מי יעז להיכוות בגחלתו! אבל אם קנין תורה היא, נחון בה בעל ה'תניא' במידה גדושה. "מדוע דלגת עלי", תבע. "אמור את אשר בליבך!". הוודקה התירה את חרצבות לשונו של הבדחן. נענה ואמר: "וכי מה יתרונו של הרבי עלינו? ידיעת התורה שלו, בנגלה ובנסתר! ואני שאול: האמנם כן?! הבה נבחן – הרי מה שאני יודע, גם הרבי יודע – ומה שהרבי לא יודע, גם אני איני יודע. אלא מאי? רבים הדברים שהרבי יודע, ואני איני יודע?! מה בכך?! והלא רבים לאין שיעור הדברים, שגם הרבי וגם אני איננו יודעים!" פרץ הבדחן בבכי, והרבי בכה לעמתו..."
I haven't seen this story elsewhere, and while לא ראינו, אינה ראיה, especially when I am the person saying לא ראיתי, a quick google search came up with this.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 04:18:57 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1294
  • Total likes: 238
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #178 on: February 26, 2018, 04:11:44 PM »
Any thinking person should have questions. I have many. Some I’ve found an answer to. Others I don’t yet have the answer but I know that just as there is an answer to the former, there is an answer to the latter as well. It’s how one asks the question that is important.

אמונה doesn't make sense.

We believe because we are מאמינים בני מאמינים and our neshamos were by matan torah.

From an intellectual standpoint alone, there are plenty of questions.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8186
  • Total likes: 2285
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #179 on: February 26, 2018, 04:32:17 PM »
this מי שברך was written by the תוס יוט after he had a dream that the reason for the crusades was talking in shul during davening
it was the Cossacks
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.