Author Topic: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)  (Read 20705 times)

Online hvaces42

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Re: Torah stuff that I don't understand
« Reply #180 on: February 26, 2018, 05:32:50 PM »
אמונה doesn't make sense.




The way it was explained to me when i asked the question was as follows: Us Jews celebrate the holidays because our parents celebrated them back to time immemorial. Our parents are not liars so we inherently believe that they received this tradition going back to its origin. Therefore, the biblical narrative must be true.

If that is the case then we celebrate Shavuos, which memorializes the receipt of the Torah at Sinai. So part of the narrative that Moses ascended to Heaven and came down with the Tablets is fact. Then what part of Judaism requires faith?

The part that has him writing down everything else besides what he came down with.


Does that make Emunah more understandable?
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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #181 on: February 26, 2018, 06:14:27 PM »
אמונה doesn't make sense.

We believe because we are מאמינים בני מאמינים and our neshamos were by matan torah.

From an intellectual standpoint alone, there are plenty of questions.

So I should just believe every baal shem tov story I hear, because hey emuna...

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #182 on: February 26, 2018, 06:19:44 PM »
So I should just believe every baal shem tov story I hear, because hey emuna...
The torah doesnt require you to believe any baal shemtov story. Where do you get your logic from?

Can you answer this question...What part of Judaism requires emunah? If we have every yom tov as a remembrance of an actual event that occurred and they have been celebrated continuously from when they were established, what actually requires faith/emunah?
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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #183 on: February 26, 2018, 06:27:19 PM »
So I should just believe every baal shem tov story I hear, because hey emuna...
the average baal shem tov story (and for the matter golem story as well ) was first created well after he was niftar.
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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #184 on: February 26, 2018, 06:30:42 PM »
the average baal shem tov story (and for the matter golem story as well ) was first created well after he was niftar.
Read this thread. Golem stories are being written as we speak.
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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #185 on: February 26, 2018, 07:17:35 PM »
So I should just believe every baal shem tov story I hear, because hey emuna...

Not at all. But once your belief in the Torah is solid, questions will have a completely different meaning. Your question won’t be “things in the Torah that don’t make sense”, but rather “how can I reconcile that which I don’t understand in the Torah”.

Say you see the International Space Station up in orbit and you can’t understand how it got there, would you say “this doesn’t make sense”, or would you ask “how can I understand more about how it got there”? We already know you would ask the latter. That’s because you completely believe that it’s actually up there and that your eyes are not deceiving you.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #186 on: February 26, 2018, 07:30:17 PM »
Not at all. But once your belief in the Torah is solid, questions will have a completely different meaning. Your question won’t be “things in the Torah that don’t make sense”, but rather “how can I reconcile that which I don’t understand in the Torah”.

Say you see the International Space Station up in orbit and you can’t understand how it got there, would you say “this doesn’t make sense”, or would you ask “how can I understand more about how it got there”? We already know you would ask the latter. That’s because you completely believe that it’s actually up there and that your eyes are not deceiving you.
Sorry here comes what might be an ignorant question. Are you saying that everything in the Torah can be explained where it makes sense?
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #187 on: February 26, 2018, 07:31:47 PM »
The torah doesnt require you to believe any baal shemtov story. Where do you get your logic from?

Can you answer this question...What part of Judaism requires emunah? If we have every yom tov as a remembrance of an actual event that occurred and they have been celebrated continuously from when they were established, what actually requires faith/emunah?

Simple. Christians have celebrated Xmas for millenia. What differentiates our Holidays from theirs?

As a Jew you believe that their Holidays have no real basis. What makes you think ours has? They celebrate their Holidays because their parents celebrated it and their grandparents before that. How do we know that ours is any different?

Can you independently verify that our festivals have a real basis? Let’s start with Chanukah. FM went on and on for years about how there is no “documented history” regarding the miracle of the oil on Chanukah. Why is the story of Purim not well known to historians? If Hashem did fantasy-style miracles for the Jews in Egypt, why did he stop now? Surely he could have hit the Nazis with at least frogs or lice?

Sorry, I don’t want to preach kefirah here but you get my point. Emunah is the entirety of it.


Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #188 on: February 26, 2018, 07:35:43 PM »
Simple. Christians have celebrated Xmas for millenia. What differentiates our Holidays from theirs?

As a Jew you believe that their Holidays have no real basis. What makes you think ours has? They celebrate their Holidays because their parents celebrated it and their grandparents before that. How do we know that ours is any different?

Can you independently verify that our festivals have a real basis? Let’s start with Chanukah. FM went on and on for years about how there is no “documented history” regarding the miracle of the oil on Chanukah. Why is the story of Purim not well known to historians? If Hashem did fantasy-style miracles for the Jews in Egypt, why did he stop now? Surely he could have hit the Nazis with at least frogs or lice?

Sorry, I don’t want to preach kefirah here but you get my point. Emunah is the entirety of it.
WOW!
I just found a new supply of forks!

Online zale

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #189 on: February 26, 2018, 07:35:46 PM »
Sorry here comes what might be an ignorant question. Are you saying that everything in the Torah can be explained where it makes sense?

Not at all. Not everything can be understood. Especially Midrash and Kabalah.

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #190 on: February 26, 2018, 07:36:04 PM »
Sorry here comes what might be an ignorant question. Are you saying that everything in the Torah can be explained where it makes sense?
Everything makes sense in His infinite wisdom. Some parts won't be understood by any humans until the messianic era.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #191 on: February 26, 2018, 07:59:52 PM »
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #192 on: February 26, 2018, 08:04:22 PM »
The torah doesnt require you to believe any baal shemtov story. Where do you get your logic from?

Can you answer this question...What part of Judaism requires emunah? If we have every yom tov as a remembrance of an actual event that occurred and they have been celebrated continuously from when they were established, what actually requires faith/emunah?

I never doubted the core tenets of judaism. But then this by extension would  hold me to anything the rishonim say.. yet how is it ok for Radak to find it far fetched that Ruth was alive 300 years later.

i'm not skeptical. I dont doubt the Rambam's writings etc and others

But I dont think everything is mean to be taken literally.

Arba nichnas l'pardes was this litteral or mystical?

Quote
Rashi explains that they ascended to Heaven by utilizing the Divine Name, which might be understood as achieving a spiritual elevation through Jewish meditation practices. The Tosafot, medieval commentaries on the Talmud, say that the four sages "did not go up literally, but it appeared to them as if they went up."[5] On the other hand, Rabbi Louis Ginzberg writes in the Jewish Encyclopedia (1901–1906) that the journey to paradise "is to be taken literally and not allegorically".[6] According to another interpretation, PaRDeS-exegesis is an acronym for the 4 traditional methods of exegesis in Judaism. In this sense, they were the four to understand the whole Torah

Online hvaces42

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #193 on: February 26, 2018, 08:15:51 PM »
Simple. Christians have celebrated Xmas for millenia. What differentiates our Holidays from theirs?

As a Jew you believe that their Holidays have no real basis. What makes you think ours has? They celebrate their Holidays because their parents celebrated it and their grandparents before that. How do we know that ours is any different?

Can you independently verify that our festivals have a real basis? Let’s start with Chanukah. FM went on and on for years about how there is no “documented history” regarding the miracle of the oil on Chanukah. Why is the story of Purim not well known to historians? If Hashem did fantasy-style miracles for the Jews in Egypt, why did he stop now? Surely he could have hit the Nazis with at least frogs or lice?

Sorry, I don’t want to preach kefirah here but you get my point. Emunah is the entirety of it.
My grandfather and farher arent liars. If you only have emunah as your failsafe from discounting Judaism as just another religion then its a very thin line to going off.

To follow your logic why have emunah in Judaism. The same way Moshe Rabbeinu came down from the mountain with the Torah, lehavdil elef alfei alafim, Mohammed heard an "angel" speak to him in the cave and gave him the Koran.

What is emunah? Pick and choose what sounds best to you? Of course not.

Judaism is the only religion that has a mesorah of national revelation, ma'amad Har Sinai. My grandfather and his grandfather have the tradition all the way back to that time. We heard אנכי. No other religion has that mesorah. They have individuals who claimed to have received messages.

So you will tell me Moshe Rabbeinu also made up everything besides the עשרת הדיברות. That is where אמונה and the 13 Ikrim come into play.
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Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #194 on: February 26, 2018, 11:27:06 PM »
Again, its not emuna.. But yes we can discuss, was matan torah a physical event or ruach hakodesh revelation?