Author Topic: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)  (Read 32341 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #260 on: February 27, 2018, 08:34:40 PM »
Can Will you comment if Judaism views Catholicism as idol worship?
My understanding is that most authorities from before Protestantism were of the opinion that it is not idolatry for gentiles but is for Jews but I cannot say that I really ever researched that extensively as it has few practical ramifications.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #261 on: February 27, 2018, 11:51:23 PM »
Is that title better?

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #262 on: February 28, 2018, 12:08:56 AM »
?????
Chevron made a statement that there is definitely no idolatry in Christianity. I responded that that is subject to debate. Indeed a good part of the worlds Christians do consider it to be idolatry. I have no personal opinion on the matter since I am not a catholic or a Protestant....

No,
I said it was a debate if christianity is avoda zara

https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/89/is-christianity-avodah-zara


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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #263 on: February 28, 2018, 12:17:31 AM »
Is that title better?
Thank you.

Almost anything is better than the original. I feel almost drunk from relief, that I can't think straight whether this is accurate.  ;)
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Offline yzj

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #264 on: February 28, 2018, 12:19:35 AM »
No,
I said it was a debate if christianity is avoda zara

https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/89/is-christianity-avodah-zara

I didnt research other religions, but ive researched judaism in ways that give me more answers and faith than Christianity and Islam.

Both are inherently flawed any are sub cultures of the hebrew religion. As neither are idol worship (different debate if Christianity is avoda zara) its fine for a non jew to believe in Shituf.



I wonder if any judaic legit sources believe malachim have free will and power on their own

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that it was debatable if shituf is Avoda Zara but there is definitely no actual idol worship, which would certainly be a problem for a non Jew, hence my reply....

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #265 on: February 28, 2018, 12:21:23 AM »
No,
I said it was a debate if christianity is avoda zara

https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/89/is-christianity-avodah-zara
May I suggest that we don't engage in that debate, which probably requires knowledge and information, beyond what the most Jews are Halachicaly permitted to study.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 12:37:27 AM by ExGingi »
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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #266 on: February 28, 2018, 12:22:03 AM »
Perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that it was debatable if shituf is Avoda Zara but there is definitely no actual idol worship, which would certainly be a problem for a non Jew, hence my reply....

ok my bad. Different versions of Christianity differ. If we hold that shituf is ok for a goy, than yes certain christians are not oved avoda zara...

Wait, wheres my stam yayin ;)

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Re: How does it make sense that Chaggai lived for so long but isn't mentioned?
« Reply #267 on: February 28, 2018, 12:23:33 AM »
May I suggest that we don't engage in that debate, which probably requires knowledge and information beyond what the most Jews are Halachicaly permitted to study.

I only went there for

Quote
Quote
There is a dispute among the posekim as to whether shittuf is permitted to non-Jews. (This has ramifications, for example, concerning the laws of yayin nesech, doing business with them on their holidays, etc.).

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Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #268 on: February 28, 2018, 12:24:37 AM »
Can Will you comment if Judaism views Catholicism as idol worship?


I know a 5bm method and a chase 5/24 work around... ;) oh I have ADD

Online davidrotts63

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #269 on: February 28, 2018, 12:26:30 AM »

I know a 5bm method and a chase 5/24 work around... ;) oh I have ADD
YHPM
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Offline yzj

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #270 on: February 28, 2018, 12:27:55 AM »

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #271 on: February 28, 2018, 12:40:07 AM »
Thank you.

Almost anything is better than the original. I feel almost drunk from relief, that I can't think straight whether this is accurate.  ;)

Should have waited 2 more days then.

I wonder if any judaic legit sources believe malachim have free will and power on their own

Yes. Just don't ask me to find them...

Offline yzj

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Re: Torah stuff that doesnt make sense
« Reply #272 on: February 28, 2018, 02:19:09 AM »
My understanding is that most authorities from before Protestantism were of the opinion that it is not idolatry for gentiles but is for Jews but I cannot say that I really ever researched that extensively as it has few practical ramifications.

It’s actually pretty complicated, since the idea of transubstantiation was not formally adopted in its current form until 1215, long after Rashi, the Rambam, and many of the Rishonim lived. (Tosafos Avoda Zara 50b describes loaves that are given to priests to supply them with food, he is clearly not referring to the Eucharist.) Whether the idea of transubstantiation was widely accepted before that date or not is debated by the Catholics/Protestants . The bottom line is that assuming that shituf  is in concept allowed for a non Jew, Catholicism for a non Jew would appear to be more problematic than Protestantism as far as the Noahide laws are concerned; even if one were to accept the Catholic explanation of why what they do isn’t considered idolatry according to their faith, (without going into details) that idea might very well be a violation of the Noahide laws of Idol worship according to the Jewish faith . Ask your Local Orthodox Noahide Expert :)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 02:22:38 AM by yzj »

Offline yakov116

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #273 on: February 28, 2018, 05:00:14 AM »
Money talks...mine says goodbye!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #274 on: February 28, 2018, 08:29:16 AM »
Is a strong desire to gain money and wealth; greed be a form of idolatry? What about a very strong desire to gain fame or recognition?
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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #275 on: February 28, 2018, 09:05:14 AM »
Is a strong desire to gain money and wealth; greed be a form of idolatry? What about a very strong desire to gain fame or recognition?
In a figurative sense the above is described as “serving an untold number of idols”. The root of it is something akin to idolatry. One who gets angry is figuratively “considered to be engaged in idolatry” as well. Technically, however, in either of the above cases he is not actually violating the Noahide laws in practice.

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #276 on: February 28, 2018, 10:12:41 AM »
Is a strong desire to gain money and wealth; greed be a form of idolatry? What about a very strong desire to gain fame or recognition?
For a Jew it might be a derivative of idolatry, as it attributes power to anything but the Omnipotent, blessed be He. Though definitely not punishable by an earthly court at any time.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #277 on: February 28, 2018, 10:16:11 AM »
For a Jew it might be a derivative of idolatry...
That's what I was asking. TY!
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Offline aygart

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #278 on: February 28, 2018, 10:17:53 AM »
For a Jew it might be a derivative of idolatry, as it attributes power to anything but the Omnipotent, blessed be He. Though definitely not punishable by an earthly court at any time.
How does wanting a lot of money attribute power to it?
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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #279 on: February 28, 2018, 10:21:35 AM »
How does wanting a lot of money attribute power to it?
Why would anyone want money?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan