Author Topic: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)  (Read 144899 times)

Offline imayid2

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1400 on: October 19, 2023, 03:18:59 PM »

Offline imayid2

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1401 on: October 19, 2023, 06:04:45 PM »
Letter from the Riyatz warning what could ח״ו happen in EY because of the tziyonim. Written in 1942 when EY was in grave danger from the Nazis.
(See specifically from page שנח towards the bottom and on).

Offline flyingace

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1402 on: October 19, 2023, 07:16:53 PM »
What does "Never Again" mean to frum people who use that term?

Offline AsherO

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1403 on: October 19, 2023, 07:18:07 PM »
What does "Never Again" mean to frum people who use that term?

Why would it mean anything different than to secular people?
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1404 on: October 19, 2023, 07:29:18 PM »
What does "Never Again" mean to frum people who use that term?

Going on a Chol Hamoed trip in the tri state area

Offline flyingace

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1405 on: October 19, 2023, 07:35:45 PM »
Why would it mean anything different than to secular people?
Secular people believe they can educate, legislate, fight etc. away anti-Semitism. As a frum Jew I believe that  it is a tool in the hand of Hashem and we can only fight it spiritually.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1406 on: October 19, 2023, 07:45:12 PM »
Letter from the Riyatz warning what could ח״ו happen in EY because of the tziyonim. Written in 1942 when EY was in grave danger from the Nazis.
(See specifically from page שנח towards the bottom and on).

What a read! The Rebbe Rayatz’s position is well known. Show me a letter of the 7th Rebbe saying anything remotely similar.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1407 on: October 19, 2023, 07:45:51 PM »
Secular people believe they can educate, legislate, fight etc. away anti-Semitism. As a frum Jew I believe that  it is a tool in the hand of Hashem and we can only fight it spiritually.

Interesting perspective, I’ve never considered that.
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Offline flyingace

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1408 on: October 19, 2023, 07:56:16 PM »
Interesting perspective, I’ve never considered that.
Honestly only ever heard it used in a JDL, Zionistic, anti-wimpy, frum Jew way before. Hence my (sincere) question.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1409 on: October 19, 2023, 07:58:46 PM »
Letter from the Riyatz warning what could ח״ו happen in EY because of the tziyonim. Written in 1942 when EY was in grave danger from the Nazis.
(See specifically from page שנח towards the bottom and on).

Same with numerous letters from the Rebbe the Rashab, like this one here https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=31622&st=&pgnum=259



Well that was once upon a time, today we are *speechless* to such vile stuff. Our job today is to preach love and more love. Embracing the exitance of the state delays the Geulah? What the heck?? Israel’s modern existence is a miracle!

What a read! The Rebbe Rayatz’s position is well known. Show me a letter of the 7th Rebbe saying anything remotely similar.

Well that was a nice admission about the "age old" approach.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1410 on: October 19, 2023, 08:04:29 PM »
What does "Never Again" mean to frum people who use that term?

Unconsciously repeating kefirah 

Offline AsherO

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1411 on: October 19, 2023, 08:12:00 PM »
yt
Same with numerous letters from the Rebbe the Rashab, like this one here https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=31622&st=&pgnum=259



Well that was once upon a time, today we are *speechless* to such vile stuff. Our job today is to preach love and more love. Embracing the exitance of the state delays the Geulah? What the heck?? Israel’s modern existence is a miracle!

Well that was a nice admission about the "age old" approach.

The Rebbe Rasha”b and Previous Rebbe were staunchly anti Zionist and the Previous Rebbe was known to be sharp about many issues he felt strongly about. I don’t think this is representative and is the “age old” approach. In any case, those statements were from before the State was established. Please show me matching positions from the 7th Rebbe, I don’t believe such exist.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1412 on: October 19, 2023, 08:13:20 PM »
Unconsciously repeating kefirah 

You’ve never seen היל״ת? It literally means “never again” and I’m sure it’s been used by tzadikkim.
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1413 on: October 19, 2023, 08:17:16 PM »
yt
The Rebbe Rasha”b and Previous Rebbe were staunchly anti Zionist and the Previous Rebbe was known to be sharp about many issues he felt strongly about. I don’t think this is representative and is the “age old” approach. In any case, those statements were from before the State was established. Please show me matching positions from the 7th Rebbe, I don’t believe such exist.

First of all you'd be the one who'd want to reconcile what the last Rebbe said to those that the previous Rebbes said. I'm actually wondering why you feel comfortable saying he went on a different path. Secondly, there are some statements from the last Rebbe too to a certain degree. Why it is not incorporated in Lubavitch today is indeed beyond me.


Offline EliJelly

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1414 on: October 19, 2023, 08:20:46 PM »
You’ve never seen היל״ת? It literally means “never again” and I’m sure it’s been used by tzadikkim.

היל״ת is more like אל תפתח פה לשטן, or perhaps a tefilah. Not the insurance always proclaimed by the promise of Israel.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1415 on: October 19, 2023, 08:29:31 PM »
First of all you'd be the one who'd want to reconcile what the last Rebbe said to those that the previous Rebbes said. I'm actually wondering why you feel comfortable saying he went on a different path.

Who said he went on a different path? I’m stating facts to you, he didn’t make such statements and made very different ones, if you have a reconciliation to suggest I’m happy to listen.



1. That’s hearsay.
2. That’s specific about Yom HaAtzmaut.
3. I don’t think the last Rebbe was pro the state, not at all. I’m not pro the state either. I wasn’t the one who called the state a miracle, though ironically it seems you unintentionally implied that in your other comment.

I’m not going to speak for or defend “Lubavtich [practice] today” but I’m happy to defend my own opinions, or at least defend my speaking out against what others here have said.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1416 on: October 19, 2023, 08:31:09 PM »
היל״ת is more like אל תפתח פה לשטן, or perhaps a tefilah. Not the insurance always proclaimed by the promise of Israel.

It literally means “never again”. If you consider Israel promising never again, and predicate that only on Hashem’s protection, you’re essentially saying the existence of the state is a miracle.
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Offline flyingace

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1417 on: October 19, 2023, 08:33:33 PM »
You’ve never seen היל״ת? It literally means “never again” and I’m sure it’s been used by tzadikkim.
Never Again was first used in a poem about Masada in the 1920's and later used in response to the way Jews went to the slaughter "like sheep". And of course, the JDL! I have never heard a Rav use it in reference to our history.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1418 on: October 19, 2023, 08:34:45 PM »
Never Again was first used in a poem about Masada in the 1920's and later used in response to the way Jews went to the slaughter "like sheep". And of course, the JDL! I have never heard a Rav use it in reference to our history.

I’m referring to היל״ת.
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Online Definitions2

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Re: Torah & Hashkafa Questions (PC Free For All)
« Reply #1419 on: October 19, 2023, 08:36:32 PM »
You’ve never seen היל״ת?
What does it stand for?