Author Topic: new language on amex upgrade offer  (Read 916 times)

Offline theyankel

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new language on amex upgrade offer
« on: March 06, 2018, 05:55:01 PM »
OFFER TERMS

You can earn 75,000 Hilton Honors Bonus Points after you spend $2,000 (the "Threshold Amount") on eligible purchases on your Card in your first 3 months of Card Membership starting from the date your account is approved. Eligible purchases to meet the Threshold Amount of this offer include those made by both the Basic and Additional Card Members on the Card Account. Eligible purchases are purchases for goods and services minus returns and other credits. Eligible purchases to meet the Threshold Amount of this offer do NOT include fees or interest charges, balance transfers, cash advances, purchase of travelers checks, purchase or reloading of prepaid cards, purchases of gift cards, person-to-person payments, or other cash equivalents. Hilton Honors Bonus Points will be credited to your Hilton Honors account 6 – 8 weeks after the Threshold Amount has been reached. Your Card account must not be canceled or past due at the time of fulfillment of any offers. Additional Card Members are not eligible to receive this offer. Bonus Points do not count toward elite tier qualification; for more information, visit HiltonHonors.com/terms.

Purchases may fall outside of the 3 month period in some cases, such as a delay in merchants submitting transactions to us or if the purchase date differs from the date you made the transaction. (For example, if you buy goods online, the purchase date may be the date the goods are shipped). Hilton Honors Bonus Points will be credited to your Hilton Honors account 6 – 8 weeks after the Threshold Amount has been reached.

If we in our sole discretion determine that you have engaged in abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with the welcome bonus offer in any way or that you intend to do so (for example, if you applied for one or more cards to obtain a welcome bonus offer (s) that we did not intend for you; if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it; or if you cancel or return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount), we may not credit Hilton Honors Bonus Points to your account. We may also cancel this Card account and other Card accounts you may have with us.

American Express reserves the right to modify or revoke offer at any time.

Offline myi

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 05:56:15 PM »
 many people lately have been targeted for cards which they had in the past.

 Eta; realized it's an upgrade offer.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 06:00:07 PM by myi »
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Online davidrotts63

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 05:59:07 PM »
OFFER TERMS

You can earn 75,000 Hilton Honors Bonus Points after you spend $2,000 (the "Threshold Amount") on eligible purchases on your Card in your first 3 months of Card Membership starting from the date your account is approved. Eligible purchases to meet the Threshold Amount of this offer include those made by both the Basic and Additional Card Members on the Card Account. Eligible purchases are purchases for goods and services minus returns and other credits. Eligible purchases to meet the Threshold Amount of this offer do NOT include fees or interest charges, balance transfers, cash advances, purchase of travelers checks, purchase or reloading of prepaid cards, purchases of gift cards, person-to-person payments, or other cash equivalents. Hilton Honors Bonus Points will be credited to your Hilton Honors account 6 – 8 weeks after the Threshold Amount has been reached. Your Card account must not be canceled or past due at the time of fulfillment of any offers. Additional Card Members are not eligible to receive this offer. Bonus Points do not count toward elite tier qualification; for more information, visit HiltonHonors.com/terms.

Purchases may fall outside of the 3 month period in some cases, such as a delay in merchants submitting transactions to us or if the purchase date differs from the date you made the transaction. (For example, if you buy goods online, the purchase date may be the date the goods are shipped). Hilton Honors Bonus Points will be credited to your Hilton Honors account 6 – 8 weeks after the Threshold Amount has been reached.

If we in our sole discretion determine that you have engaged in abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with the welcome bonus offer in any way or that you intend to do so (for example, if you applied for one or more cards to obtain a welcome bonus offer (s) that we did not intend for you; if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it; or if you cancel or return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount), we may not credit Hilton Honors Bonus Points to your account. We may also cancel this Card account and other Card accounts you may have with us.

American Express reserves the right to modify or revoke offer at any time.
This is an upgrade offer? If yes, care to share the link?
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Offline theyankel

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 05:59:47 PM »
many people lately have been targeted for cards which they had in the past.
correct but the language in the last paragraph is concerning

Offline theyankel

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 06:00:37 PM »
This is an upgrade offer? If yes, care to share the link?
it was targeted when logged in to my account

Online davidrotts63

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 06:01:42 PM »
it was targeted when logged in to my account
Can you hit the link, and copy it?
Doesn't hurt to try.
You can PM me if you wish
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Offline myi

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 06:02:07 PM »
correct but the language in the last paragraph is concerning
That's the standard I've seen lately when applying for amex cards.
 Nothing to be worried if your targeted for that offer.
 It's where someone else who never received the link and happens to apply for it with your link which will/can cause himself to get shut down not you.
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Offline doctorofcredit

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 07:45:30 PM »
That language was added back in October of 2017 for normal applications, I assume it was added to upgrade offers at the same time but didn't specifically check. You sure it's new?
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Offline theyankel

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2018, 02:44:04 PM »
That language was added back in October of 2017 for normal applications, I assume it was added to upgrade offers at the same time but didn't specifically check. You sure it's new?
dont know just saw it then

Offline mahnishma

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2019, 01:02:47 PM »
I called to downgrade my card that I upgraded 6 months ago, Amex downgrade department said if I downgrade within 12 months, the points will be clawed back, can anyone confirm this ? As my intention to downgrade is realizing that the benefits don't work for me..

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2019, 01:08:01 PM »
I called to downgrade my card that I upgraded 6 months ago, Amex downgrade department said if I downgrade within 12 months, the points will be clawed back, can anyone confirm this ? As my intention to downgrade is realizing that the benefits don't work for me..
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Offline ludmila

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2019, 01:52:58 PM »
Yes
So the way not to have points clawed back is to downgrade after 12 months? Does this mean you also have to pay the second year AF?
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Offline lazertek

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2019, 02:41:14 PM »
i called amex about a card that i wanted to close a month after i was charged the anual fee and asked them if i can get it refunded so they said that they will refund minus a 12th of the anual fee so i believe the case is the same when downgrading.
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Offline ludmila

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2019, 02:42:23 PM »
i called amex about a card that i wanted to close a month after i was charged the anual fee and asked them if i can get it refunded so they said that they will refund minus a 12th of the anual fee so i believe the case is the same when downgrading.
That is for the AF, how about any points being clawed back?
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Offline lazertek

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Re: new language on amex upgrade offer
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2019, 02:59:04 PM »
this answers most questions u may have about the details .
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/how-long-to-keep-your-upgraded-american-express-card-to-keep-the-rats-satisfied/
How Long to Keep your Upgraded American Express Card to Satisfy the RAT Team
We are all well aware that American Express had language added that they can claw back signup bonuses in the event of abuse, and their RAT team has actually been doing that. Two key things to avoid clawbacks are to ensure the spend is normal, non-manufactured, and to keep the card for a year. Given they swallowed a high acquisition cost, Amex doesn’t want you downgrading the card within a year to get a prorated refund on most of the annual fee.

A more confusing scenario arises in the event of an Amex upgrade offer. They regularly send out generous offers enticing cardmembers to upgrade to higher end cards. Personally, I just had this experience with two Business Green cards (one had been a business Platinum and one a Business Gold Rewards) which were targeted to get 50,000 points with $10,000 in spend.

Amex runs their annual fees with a bit of a complicated system. They do prorate your fee refund on the lower card, but they don’t then charge you the full annual fee on the upgraded card (e.g. $450). Instead, they charge you the prorated higher fee for the rest of the year.

I’ll use my own case to illustrate. When upgrading Green to Platinum, I see on my statement a $31.66 refund adjustment for the final 4 months of my Green year, and a charge of $150 for the first 4 months of my Platinum year. Then, 4 months later, a full $450 fee hits for the coming full year of Platinum.

This is all fairly innocuous – just a computer program of how they run the annual fees – but it comes to a head when receiving an upgrade offer. It’s pretty common for people to evaluate whether to keep a credit card when they see the annual fee post to their statement. But if you recently accepted an upgrade offer, be sure to keep the card for a full year.

Twitter user @jonNYC and Milestomemories commenter gus report doing an upgrade bonus, then downgrading many months later when the annual fee posted to their statement, and Amex proceeded to claw back their upgrade bonus.

Two lessons learned:

Amex claws back upgrade bonuses if you don’t keep the card for a year, just as they do so with new member bonuses.
They expect you to keep the card for a full year, irrespective of the annual fee posting schedule.
Unintentionally, Amex lands up gaining by running the annual fees based on the cardmember anniversary since people will now have to pay the first prorated fee and then the second full fee. You can downgrade one year from the upgrade mark – in midyear – and get a prorated adjustment, but a lot of people will forgot to do so and end up paying one-and-a-half high annual fees before downgrading.

Hat tip to @jonNYC and Milestomemories

Adding here a few notes based on the comments to this post:

Unclear whether when you accept a retention offer you need to keep the card for a full year. Same question for authorized-user bonuses. I believe both of those should be fine since there’s no “abuse” terms there that you accepted whereas upgrade offers do have abuse in the terms: “If we…determine that you have engaged in abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with the welcome offer in any way or that you intend to do so (for example…if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it…), we may not credit Bonus Points to your account. We may also cancel this Card account and other Card accounts you may have with us.”
We haven’t heard of cobranded cards like Delta, Hilton, etc, getting clawbacks since the points are already deposited to the partner account. (Update: One data point here.)
If you accepted an upgrade offer from a low card to a mid-level card and then got an upgrade offer to a top-level card within the year, you’re probably safe to upgrade again – even within the year – since the offer is coming directly from Amex themselves.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 03:10:05 PM by lazertek »
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