Author Topic: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation  (Read 1293 times)

Offline sky121

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2018, 08:43:44 PM »
-1 the amount of work is irrelevant. You can't play God.
No but wouldn't someone who in theory has a higher chance of developing cancer maybe make a better effort to pay attention to symptoms and better at self exams etc? Is that not hishtadlus?

I personally don't know a hundred percent how I feel about this but definitely feel like you can argue hishtadlus. Especially when it may run in someone's family etc.

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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2018, 09:17:00 PM »
-1 the amount of work is irrelevant. You can't play God.
If the information is readily available, and you put on blinders, that is playing stupid. Taking a peek is not gd. Just modern science. (Just presenting the aurgument).

Offline avromie7

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2018, 09:21:42 PM »


No but wouldn't someone who in theory has a higher chance of developing cancer maybe make a better effort to pay attention to symptoms and better at self exams etc? Is that not hishtadlus?

I personally don't know a hundred percent how I feel about this but definitely feel like you can argue hishtadlus. Especially when it may run in someone's family etc.
it would be dependant on how common it is, and what the risks are if someone tests positive. That's why I said AYLOR
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2018, 09:23:35 PM »
If the information is readily available, and you put on blinders, that is playing stupid. Taking a peek is not gd. Just modern science. (Just presenting the aurgument).
Would you also say not to use any item that's knows to the state of California to cause cancer?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2018, 10:36:52 PM »
Of all genetic testing, Dor Yesharim is the least controversial, and even Dor Yesharim was very controversial when it started, and is still not universally accepted. R' Moshe was very against Dor Yesharim. Many who approve of Dor Yesharim would not approve of any other genetic testing.
In my circles, Dor Yesharim is the most controversial.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2018, 07:57:08 AM »
So anti vaxers just have more bitachon! I aspire to a level of bitachon that I cross only on red lights, replace the faucets in my house with sugar fountains, and remove the child protection bars from my 6th floor windows.

My family history is one of colon cancer. I have a colonoscopy every 3 years, which at my age is extremely unusual. It's a painless procedure that literally saves from death.

It is not a theoretical game. It's life saving knowledge.

What do you do if you find out you're genetically predisposed to a cancer? You get checked. Early and often.

I'm no Rabbi, philosopher or theologian, but bitachon is not belief without sechel, it's conviction that supersedes sechel.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2018, 08:04:56 AM »
I have issue with the tests not from a halachic view but more from a psychological concern. 
Like what it could do to you having this extra pressure of feeling like 'its coming for you' type of thing. 

Like how much is too much.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2018, 01:01:40 PM »
I have issue with the tests not from a halachic view but more from a psychological concern. 
Like what it could do to you having this extra pressure of feeling like 'its coming for you' type of thing. 

Like how much is too much.
Ignorance is bliss.
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Offline yelped

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2018, 01:06:41 PM »
So anti vaxers just have more bitachon! I aspire to a level of bitachon that I cross only on red lights, replace the faucets in my house with sugar fountains, and remove the child protection bars from my 6th floor windows.

My family history is one of colon cancer. I have a colonoscopy every 3 years, which at my age is extremely unusual. It's a painless procedure that literally saves from death.

It is not a theoretical game. It's life saving knowledge.

What do you do if you find out you're genetically predisposed to a cancer? You get checked. Early and often.

I'm no Rabbi, philosopher or theologian, but bitachon is not belief without sechel, it's conviction that supersedes sechel.
Thank you for stating it so eloquently.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2018, 01:07:51 PM »
So anti vaxers just have more bitachon! I aspire to a level of bitachon that I cross only on red lights, replace the faucets in my house with sugar fountains, and remove the child protection bars from my 6th floor windows.

My family history is one of colon cancer. I have a colonoscopy every 3 years, which at my age is extremely unusual. It's a painless procedure that literally saves from death.

It is not a theoretical game. It's life saving knowledge.

What do you do if you find out you're genetically predisposed to a cancer? You get checked. Early and often.

I'm no Rabbi, philosopher or theologian, but bitachon is not belief without sechel, it's conviction that supersedes sechel.
There is bitachon, and there is hishtadlus. At some point you pass the point of hishtadlus, and you venture into the area of lack of bitachon. I am not an LOR, so I won't decide where the line should be drawn, but there is a line and you can ask your LOR where that line is.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Definitions

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2019, 09:19:09 PM »
Serious question.

I'm very confused about this. Why is dor yesharim considered a lack of bitachon? Is it because even if you're tested positive for whatever there's still a chance that you're child won't get that disease. Therefore by you deciding not to take that risk by not getting married you're saying you think it's up to chance and not to hashem?

Also I think even though everybody takes a test now still  rabbanim don't allow/recommend a test to be taken after someone is engaged, what's the difference between before or after?
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Offline ckmk47

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2019, 09:48:09 PM »
After being mekayem pru urvu, I would like to think that genetic testing of all couples, for all prevelent diseases (jscreen), should be recommended.
So if someone tests positive, they shouldn't have more children?? 
This has a lot less to do with passing on a predisposition to cancer than having a predispositon to cancer.


Anyone being tested has to think about what they might do if they test positive.
Noone actually expects a positive test result.


Increased testing. Preventive, preemptive removal of, so far healthy, body parts at great risk of developing cancer.  That's when you talk to a doctor sith your LOR.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Free Genetic Testing-BFor Study for Ashkenazi Jews-BRCA Mutation
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2019, 12:25:41 AM »
Women with BRCA1 mutations have over a 50% chance of developing breast cancer in their lifetime, and a third to close to half will develop ovarian cancer. Prophylactic mastectomy or oophorectomy can greatly reduce the risk, and early, frequent screening can catch those cancers while they are still treatable. Considering the prevalence of the mutation among Jews of askenazic decent, it certainly seems more worthwhile to go for this genetic testing than to the bikur cholim health screening that will tell you if you have high blood pressure....