Author Topic: New standard for Hebrew keyboards  (Read 787 times)

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 4038
  • Total likes: 443
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« on: April 16, 2018, 10:12:53 PM »
Israeli media outlets are reporting a change to the standard layout, unifying certain punctuation marks with the English (and regular english  ;)) qwerty keyboard, and distancing the final noon (ן) from the vov (ו) to reduce errors.

https://www.themarker.com/technation/1.6008425

Will you switch?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline bestwatchman

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 212
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 02:38:52 AM »
I like it!

Offline cholent

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1842
  • Total likes: 81
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 03:16:41 AM »
As previous attempts with the English keyboard have proven, it's hard to get people to switch from what they know. I'll stick to the Hebrew keyboard that I can touch type now
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline yesitsme

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 983
  • Total likes: 63
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 06:27:43 AM »
As previous attempts with the English keyboard have proven, it's hard to get people to switch from what they know. I'll stick to the Hebrew keyboard that I can touch type now
For all those that have a hard time typing Hebrew at least from now they'll know where the comma period is located, vs english keyboard wysiwyg.

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 4038
  • Total likes: 443
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 07:41:42 AM »
As previous attempts with the English keyboard have proven, it's hard to get people to switch from what they know. I'll stick to the Hebrew keyboard that I can touch type now
I have been touch typing in Hebrew (and English) for longer than several people around here have been on this planet, so I doubt whether I will switch. That being said, the changes, while significant in their effects, are quite minor (only 3 characters moved IINM). I think I could adapt pretty fast if I decided to do so.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline JoeyShmoe

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 1108
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 10:46:03 AM »
I have been touch typing in Hebrew (and English) for longer than several people around here have been on this planet, so I doubt whether I will switch. That being said, the changes, while significant in their effects, are quite minor (only 3 characters moved IINM). I think I could adapt pretty fast if I decided to do so.
ף,ץ & ת all move, I wouldn't be able to get used to it quickly. They also changed the location for all the נקודות (currently CAPS + Shift + numbers) which will definitely be annoying to those who use them
DDF A-Z Link Extension
Chrome
Firefox
Info

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 6095
  • Total likes: 981
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 10:56:48 AM »
ף,ץ & ת all move, I wouldn't be able to get used to it quickly. They also changed the location for all the נקודות (currently CAPS + Shift + numbers) which will definitely be annoying to those who use them
The big one is the ת. The ץ moves to the ` key which is all the way out and difficult to reach when touch typing.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline JoeyShmoe

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 1108
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 11:05:57 AM »
The big one is the ת. The ץ moves to the ` key which is all the way out and difficult to reach when touch typing.
+1
DDF A-Z Link Extension
Chrome
Firefox
Info

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 4038
  • Total likes: 443
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 11:42:24 AM »
They also changed the location for all the נקודות (currently CAPS + Shift + numbers) which will definitely be annoying to those who use them
CMIIAW but I doubt anyone touch-types nekudos using current key combinations. I would assume that those that do a significant amount of nikud do it separately than typing text, and likely use a specialized layout.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline JoeyShmoe

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 1108
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 12:18:37 PM »
CMIIAW but I doubt anyone touch-types nekudos using current key combinations. I would assume that those that do a significant amount of nikud do it separately than typing text, and likely use a specialized layout.
I don't do a significant amount of Nekudos at all, but I've done it quite a few times and I know the order by heart. I don't know what the professionals use (although, it does make sense that they don't use the CAPS + Shift + numbers system)
DDF A-Z Link Extension
Chrome
Firefox
Info

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 4038
  • Total likes: 443
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 12:36:26 PM »
I don't do a significant amount of Nekudos at all, but I've done it quite a few times and I know the order by heart. I don't know what the professionals use (although, it does make sense that they don't use the CAPS + Shift + numbers system)

Are you an educator? IME most fonts under most Windows programs don't have proper support for Nekudos in the first place (SBL Hebrew and a few others being the exception, and even with those, often users don't know how to use the nekudos properly, resulting in inadequate outcomes). So I still maintain, that the nekudos are a total non-issue. Actually, strike that, I just looked at the placement of nekudos in the new layout, and it seems to be a lot more conducive to touch-typing, with placement in the 3 primary rows.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline JoeyShmoe

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 1108
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 02:15:41 PM »
Are you an educator? IME most fonts under most Windows programs don't have proper support for Nekudos in the first place (SBL Hebrew and a few others being the exception, and even with those, often users don't know how to use the nekudos properly, resulting in inadequate outcomes). So I still maintain, that the nekudos are a total non-issue. Actually, strike that, I just looked at the placement of nekudos in the new layout, and it seems to be a lot more conducive to touch-typing, with placement in the 3 primary rows.
I'm not an educator, I've used it multiple times for various different reasons, I'm a fast learner :)

Isn't the whole idea in your OP meant to be more conducive to touch typing? The question was if people will switch, and I added another reason why it'd be harder/more annoying to switch. In my specific case that would be a major con to switching.
DDF A-Z Link Extension
Chrome
Firefox
Info

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 4038
  • Total likes: 443
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 02:23:08 PM »
What I didn't notice originally, but did after going back to review the layout when you mentioned nekudos, and actually think might be a deal breaker on the adoption of this layout, is the placement of the ץ. That location is both out of range for touch typing, and inconsistent across keyboards, with some smaller or slightly modified keyboards having the key for `/~ placed elsewhere due to the rarity of use in English.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline JoeyShmoe

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 1108
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 02:38:37 PM »
What I didn't notice originally, but did after going back to review the layout when you mentioned nekudos, and actually think might be a deal breaker on the adoption of this layout, is the placement of the ץ. That location is both out of range for touch typing, and inconsistent across keyboards, with some smaller or slightly modified keyboards having the key for `/~ placed elsewhere due to the rarity of use in English.
The big one is the ת. The ץ moves to the ` key which is all the way out and difficult to reach when touch typing.
(emphasis mine)
DDF A-Z Link Extension
Chrome
Firefox
Info

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 4038
  • Total likes: 443
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: New standard for Hebrew keyboards
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 02:43:38 PM »
(emphasis mine)

I guess I missed that, but I contend that while the new location for ת which is more commonly used than ץ is adaptable, the location of the ץ is truly problematic on both issues pointed out.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan