Author Topic: Chilul hashem on AF  (Read 4403 times)

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2018, 12:47:53 AM »
We had this PC discussion on DDF a few times already.
Kiddsh hashem vs Chilul hashem, the true meaning.

There are quite a few poskin that hold it's asuer. So sitting down for some is not even an option.

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2018, 01:07:00 AM »
You are right. Asking nicely resulted in a delay?
To play devils advocate:
His seat change may have had nothing to do with any delay; perhaps they were delayed for other reasons. Or perhaps his polite request was treated with disrespect and caused a delay.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2018, 08:05:40 AM »
To play devils advocate:
His seat change may have had nothing to do with any delay; perhaps they were delayed for other reasons. Or perhaps his polite request was treated with disrespect and caused a delay.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised either way. I wouldn't even call it devil's advocate. I'm sure there have been similar stories in the past where the passenger was at fault and times where the FA was at fault

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2018, 08:11:35 AM »
except that in this case he knows the PAX complains that all FA's hate him (read: jews?)

Offline mendyt

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2018, 09:40:31 AM »
except that in this case he knows the PAX complains that all FA's hate him (read: jews?)
Didn't mean this pax in particular.
It's just the common slang you hear from many heimishe  people.
Will hopefully find out the other side of the story by tomorrow

Offline Baruch

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2018, 09:47:39 AM »
Don't worry, as the #metoo movement grows, soon it will be illegal for a man to sit next to a woman. (I'm only half joking)
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Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2018, 11:13:01 AM »
If you won't sit next to a woman under any circumstances, you have to buy 2 seats or sit in a single seat configuration. In the case of AF, they have a whole policy about it! https://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common/guidevoyageur/assistance/particuliere_pfc.htm

Assuming PAX didn't attempt to do this, it's his fault.

Offline yelped

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2018, 11:24:36 AM »
Interesting. They refund the second seat if there's an empty seat anywhere in Economy on the plane. And you don't pay taxes. I'm assuming that includes YQ?

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2018, 12:47:03 PM »
If you won't sit next to a woman under any circumstances, you have to buy 2 seats or sit in a single seat configuration. In the case of AF, they have a whole policy about it! https://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common/guidevoyageur/assistance/particuliere_pfc.htm

Assuming PAX didn't attempt to do this, it's his fault.
Never heard of this deal for buying a 2nd seat to accommodate your girth.
Certainly wouldn't have thought of using it to avoid the wrong seatmate.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2018, 12:58:15 PM »
Never heard of this deal for buying a 2nd seat to accommodate your girth.
Certainly wouldn't have thought of using it to avoid the wrong seatmate.
Every airline has different policies on this, but unless one works out an arrangement with the airline ahead of time, one cannot assume their religious needs would be honored.

Offline as2

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2018, 02:39:00 PM »
We had this PC discussion on DDF a few times already.
Kiddsh hashem vs Chilul hashem, the true meaning.

There are quite a few poskin that hold it's asuer. So sitting down for some is not even an option.
In that case, it's your responsibility to do what it takes to make those arrangements without inconveniencing the airline. They are not Jewish, and therefore you are forcing your religion on them. When this issue is dealt with in a polite and proper fashion, it's usually resolved without delay or conflict.
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Offline mordechain

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2018, 03:09:53 PM »
Golus is becoming way too comfortable for us. We feel entitled. Some of us will blow it for the rest of us.

If someone's psak says not to sit next to a woman under any circumstances, he really needs to limit flying to almost never. It means being ready to ask politely once, and if not forthcoming to walk off the plane and forfeit the tickets.

Offline as2

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2018, 03:19:35 PM »
Golus is becoming way too comfortable for us. We feel entitled. Some of us will blow it for the rest of us.

If someone's psak says not to sit next to a woman under any circumstances, he really needs to limit flying to almost never. It means being ready to ask politely once, and if not forthcoming to walk off the plane and forfeit the tickets.
Exactly. It's not the best to be on a plane full of woman either, regardless of whether or not you're sitting next to them... I respect others for the level they're on, that I may not be on, but once you start pushing it on others, there is a problem.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2018, 05:37:07 PM »
Golus is becoming way too comfortable for us. We feel entitled. Some of us will blow it for the rest of us.

If someone's psak says not to sit next to a woman under any circumstances, he really needs to limit flying to almost never. It means being ready to ask politely once, and if not forthcoming to walk off the plane and forfeit the tickets.
Back in the day there were rabbanim who did exactly that. One in particular that i know of flew often enough that the airport staff already knew not to put him next to a woman.
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Offline SGF

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Re: Chilul hashem on AF
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2018, 07:51:28 PM »
Back in the day there were rabbanim who did exactly that. One in particular that i know of flew often enough that the airport staff already knew not to put him next to a woman.
Can airport staff see what is gender of passengers?