Author Topic: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org  (Read 39112 times)

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #100 on: January 17, 2020, 08:46:33 AM »
Liberty has hundreds of thousands which means a bigger pool of cash at any given time.

This seems so small and that they don't want you to buy catastrophic seems risky. They can also just stop paying whenever they want, and as long as it wasn't fraudulent, seems like there's much less recource than with an insurance company.
With all their members Liberty still hasn't reimbursed me one cent from the day I signed up,

they keep on giving excuses like they had a glitch, then 6 month backlog, then cp codes not correctly submitted.......

Not easy having to pay out $$$$$ when going through a pregnancy

Stay away from liberty healthshare

Offline lakewood34

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #101 on: January 17, 2020, 12:54:01 PM »

Did you often have to change providers to meet their pricing criteria?

The added deductible for pregnancies in only removed for families (3 or more covered people)

no i never had a problem with that .I rarely used them b"h and when i did the provider was willing to negotiate the rate  down.
My point was that insurance is to a certain degree to protect yourself from catastrophe and for me personally i felt that is lacking here because if something ch"v happens you don't know if the doctors/hospitals you will go to will work with you
Ultimately for myself i made the decision to switch but i can understand why someone else wouldn't
I ended up saving something like 6000 dollars over the year and a half over traditional insurance so there are significant savings to be had.

i would also say that probably whoever signed up initially was healthy at the time because if you knew you might have health issues why would you risk something unproven so their pool should be much healthier then the general population and that may be why their expenses for now are so low
Once they become more established in people's minds that might change

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #102 on: January 17, 2020, 01:05:10 PM »
no i never had a problem with that .I rarely used them b"h and when i did the provider was willing to negotiate the rate  down.
My point was that insurance is to a certain degree to protect yourself from catastrophe and for me personally i felt that is lacking here because if something ch"v happens you don't know if the doctors/hospitals you will go to will work with you
Ultimately for myself i made the decision to switch but i can understand why someone else wouldn't
I ended up saving something like 6000 dollars over the year and a half over traditional insurance so there are significant savings to be had.

i would also say that probably whoever signed up initially was healthy at the time because if you knew you might have health issues why would you risk something unproven so their pool should be much healthier then the general population and that may be why their expenses for now are so low
Once they become more established in people's minds that might change
I can see the appeal for someone buying on the individual market, but even most company plans should come out better when all is said and done.

Online aygart

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #103 on: January 17, 2020, 01:08:46 PM »
I spoke to someone in United Refuah, and told him that most people don't know how much their doctors charge and how much of the allowed Medicaid percentage the bill would be for, and that this uncertainty makes people wary of United Refuah. He said that they're slowly building a network of doctors with whom they have agreements who would bill them directly so the patient doesn't have to worry about unexpected high bills. You can contact them to have them try working with your doctor to add them to their "network".
That is great for your regular doctor. Once someone needs specialists that will not be simple. An insurace company had tens of thousands of participating doctors.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #104 on: January 17, 2020, 01:14:06 PM »
The complication is that health insurance does 3 things:
1. Negotiates rates with providers. All out pocket costs to the plan member derive from there.
2. Cost sharing between monthly fixed expenses, vs. variable fees-for-services
3. Traditional insurance in that you have an out of pocket max each year and unlimited lifetime coverage.

Health Shares do a good job with #2, but a worse job at #1 and #3. The members are left to negotiate cash payment, and also could have liability that the health share won't cover, not to mention risks of insolvency.

Offline avromie7

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2020, 01:33:17 PM »
The complication is that health insurance does 3 things:
1. Negotiates rates with providers. All out pocket costs to the plan member derive from there.
2. Cost sharing between monthly fixed expenses, vs. variable fees-for-services
3. Traditional insurance in that you have an out of pocket max each year and unlimited lifetime coverage.

Health Shares do a good job with #2, but a worse job at #1 and #3. The members are left to negotiate cash payment, and also could have liability that the health share won't cover, not to mention risks of insolvency.
On the other hand, many times the negotiated rate is higher than the cash rate, in which case you would save money. I have used coupons for prescriptions and saved 50% over using insurance. I think a major way they save money is by structuring in a way that encourages members to cut costs.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online aygart

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2020, 01:36:45 PM »
On the other hand, many times the negotiated rate is higher than the cash rate, in which case you would save money. I have used coupons for prescriptions and saved 50% over using insurance. I think a major way they save money is by structuring in a way that encourages members to cut costs.
That is great for your regular doctor. Once someone needs specialists that will not be simple. An insurace company had tens of thousands of participating doctors.
Also not very relevant if you are only dealing with copays.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avromie7

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2020, 01:41:56 PM »
Also not very relevant if you are only dealing with copays.
It is very relevant on a high deductible plan
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #108 on: January 19, 2020, 03:21:51 PM »
The cash rate is significantly lower than the amount they bill insurance. They have different negotiated rates with each insurer, and they just bill much higher than that to make sure they don't underbill any insurance that has a high negotiated rate.

In a case of a catastrophic plan (or any other plan subject to a deductible) the amount you pay/owe when deductible isn't yet met is the negotiated rate.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online herb

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #109 on: December 25, 2020, 03:18:27 PM »
How would this compare for a single person plan vs a catastrophic plan from another insurance company?

Offline lakewood34

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #110 on: December 26, 2020, 06:27:12 PM »
How would this compare for a single person plan vs a catastrophic plan from another insurance company?
price wise this is so much cheaper and much lower deductible
as far as coverage every plan is different in this plan there is no in network or out of network but they cap their reimbursement amounts and you hope your doctors etc. will be happy with that amount otherwise you can be on the hook for the overage.I do think they will help you negotiate

Online herb

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #111 on: December 26, 2020, 06:50:19 PM »
price wise this is so much cheaper and much lower deductible
as far as coverage every plan is different in this plan there is no in network or out of network but they cap their reimbursement amounts and you hope your doctors etc. will be happy with that amount otherwise you can be on the hook for the overage.I do think they will help you negotiate
any other downside?

Online cgr

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #112 on: December 26, 2020, 08:17:07 PM »
any other downside?
They don't cover prescription drugs at all.

Online herb

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #113 on: December 26, 2020, 11:41:46 PM »
They don't cover prescription drugs at all.
neither does a catastrophic plan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #114 on: July 08, 2021, 06:06:44 PM »
I just heard today from someone who has his family on United Refuah, and whose wife is having a high risk pregnancy, that United Refuah offered them to sign a waiver so that the pregnancy will not be covered, and in exchange, United Refuah offered to pay the premiums for an individual Platinum Plan for the period of the pregnancy.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online herb

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #115 on: July 08, 2021, 06:11:03 PM »
I just heard today from someone who has his family on United Refuah, and whose wife is having a high risk pregnancy, that United Refuah offered them to sign a waiver so that the pregnancy will not be covered, and in exchange, United Refuah offered to pay the premiums for an individual Platinum Plan for the period of the pregnancy.
is that a good thing or not?

Offline yelped

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #116 on: July 08, 2021, 06:17:36 PM »
I just heard today from someone who has his family on United Refuah, and whose wife is having a high risk pregnancy, that United Refuah offered them to sign a waiver so that the pregnancy will not be covered, and in exchange, United Refuah offered to pay the premiums for an individual Platinum Plan for the period of the pregnancy.
Wow. Why would they do that? I guess it's a way of managing costs. That is amazing.

Offline avromie7

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #117 on: July 08, 2021, 06:18:07 PM »
Wow. Why would they do that? And that is amazing.
Because it's cheaper.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #118 on: July 08, 2021, 06:28:00 PM »
Wow. Why would they do that? I guess it's a way of managing costs. That is amazing.

I was going to edit your posts to say managing risks (rather than costs) but then I remembered that it isn't Insurance so I am not sure what their risks are and what their obligations are.

This is a prime example of what's wrong with the ACA and why it does nothing to reduce insurance premiums - on the contrary, it allows for this kind of abuse.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: NEW Jewish HealthShare unitedrefuahhs.org
« Reply #119 on: July 08, 2021, 06:29:39 PM »
Because it's cheaper.

Indeed. A high risk pregnancy can easily end up costing $100,000 or more.

I am not sure how United Refuah payments would work. I wouldn't sign any waiver before I knew the payments are guaranteed.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 07:36:44 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan