Restaurants In Israel Master Thread

[aygart]

פוק חזי מה עמא דבר

Referring to this one:

That is not rabanut

[Spoon]

*Partial List of Israeli Hecsherim*

This list was complied in Av 5782 (August 2022) after collecting feedback from Kashrus experts.

Kashrus in Eretz Yisroel changes constantly  so be sure to confirm with a Kashrus expert that this list is still current.

This list is primarily intended for Parave and Milchigs, for Meat obviously one should only eat from a kashrus with the highest standards.

*Excellent*
Rabbi Landau
Eidah Hacharedis

*Very Good*
Rabbi Rubin
Vadat Tenuva Mehadrin (Rabbi Gross and Rabbi Weitman)
Badatz Tzfas ( *not Rabbanut Tzfas Mehadrin* )
Sh’eiris Yisroel (some Lubavitchers stay away from it, *not* due to Kashrus concerns)
Rabbi Efrati Mehadrin
ZNT (Zichron Nosson Tzvi)
Rabbi Yurkewitz
Rabbi Ashkenazi

*Generally ok but proceed with caution*
Agudas Yisroel
Badatz Kehilos
Rabbi Machpud
Rabbi Mordechai Gross
OU
Iggud Harabonim Manchester
Rabbi Yeruslavsky
Rabbi Havlin

*Weak*
(Only consume after thoroughly investigating)
Chasam Sofer Bnei Brak
Rabbanut Yerushalyim Mehadrin (not *Mehuderet* )

*Not acceptable at all*
Chasam Sofer Petach Tikvah
Belz
Beis Yosef
Badatz Nevei Tzion
Badatz Maor Hakashrus / Rabbi Levinger
Badatz Shatz / SKS


Rabanut Mehadrin from any city is also not acceptable since generally they accept all the above mentioned Hecsherim in their establishments (unless you have verified otherwise with a Kashrus expert)

Who compiled this list? Just ranking Eidah over Rubin jumps out at me

[Essen est zich]

Who compiled this list? Just ranking Eidah over Rubin jumps out at me

Not sure. From a kashrus group I'm on, here is a updated list.

[Darth1]

Source please?

If you are asking specifically about CCSPT I dont have info from them, but as has been posted on ddf even the Rabunut has made recalls on CCSPT. As far as the Rabunut accepting Triangle-K just go out and look at the many many imported products that have a Triangle-K and an ishur from the Rabunut. I have also heard first hand from someone who went and asked multiple mashgichim if they would allow Triangle-K in the establishments they were supervising and they said they would. Its possible this may not be official policy as @moko said:

published standards ≠ reality

[Moshe Green]

Who compiled this list? Just ranking Eidah over Rubin jumps out at me

I agree with the list regarding the putting the Eidah over others because they are similar to the OU that they have a huge network and also, they are one the the most powerful Hechsherim in terms of making people do what they say. Rubin might have more Chumros but they are nothing in terms of network and power.

The only thing i would argue with the first list is putting Belz so low. I would bump them up a notch to weak but not as bad as not-reliable at all. (The second list bumped them up.)

As an aside, there's also a big difference if its a food product which are easier to control, and restaurants and caterers which have more issues.

[mevinyavin]

RYbs noted that the ikkur problem with hashgachos (among the good ones) is not their standards (you may discover that many of the hechsherim on the list have stellar standards), but rather, the enforcement of those standards. This is in direct contrast to the US where, among the good hechsherim, the enforcement is often excellent but they may choose to apply some wild kulos.
He allows Eida (Badatz), Rubin, She'eris and Landau to be served in the shul.
My personal collection of psakim from him are as follows.
Re: Cholov Yisrael - there is a preference to buy only Tenuva-brand Badatz for milk products. However, where product, price or convenience are not equal, he said I can use any Eida (aka Tara brand), Tnuva Mehadrin (the double hechsher), Rubin (Strauss brand and that random blue-labeled company that makes goat milk products). Other people have received stricter instructions than me; but I repeatedly ask him about this and get the same answer.
Re: Rav Efrati: there is a preference to buy otherwise but we use him on Shemitta when he has Chul products. (We don't use ANY greenhouse products on Shemitta when they treat it as non-Shemitta - RYBs is concerned their system has holes (pun intended).)
Re: ZNT - not currently recommended.
Re: Iggud Harabonim, Manchester (Rav Westheim Z"L) - RYBs said we can use him on products from outside EY but not on products from inside EY.
Re: Kehillos - "Ask Rabbi Kuber." Rabbi Kuber is currently not enthusiastic about Kehillos.
Re: Bet Yosef - Their chicken is shechted in the same facility as Eida chicken and by the same shochtim. Nevertheless, unless we are stuck, preferred not. (This is said to be because of the shidduch prospects of our kids, or something.)

This should not be said to be a rejection of other hechsherim on the list (though none make it into the top category), but this is what I was mekabel from him in conversation.

[Moshe Green]

RYbs noted that the ikkur problem with hashgachos (among the good ones) is not their standards (you may discover that many of the hechsherim on the list have stellar standards), but rather, the enforcement of those standards. This is in direct contrast to the US where, among the good hechsherim, the enforcement is often excellent but they may choose to apply some wild kulos.
He allows Eida (Badatz), Rubin, She'eris and Landau to be served in the shul.
My personal collection of psakim from him are as follows.
Re: Cholov Yisrael - there is a preference to buy only Tenuva-brand Badatz for milk products. However, where product, price or convenience are not equal, he said I can use any Eida (aka Tara brand), Tnuva Mehadrin (the double hechsher), Rubin (Strauss brand and that random blue-labeled company that makes goat milk products). Other people have received stricter instructions than me; but I repeatedly ask him about this and get the same answer.
Re: Rav Efrati: there is a preference to buy otherwise but we use him on Shemitta when he has Chul products. (We don't use ANY greenhouse products on Shemitta when they treat it as non-Shemitta - RYBs is concerned their system has holes (pun intended).)
Re: ZNT - not currently recommended.
Re: Iggud Harabonim, Manchester (Rav Westheim Z"L) - RYBs said we can use him on products from outside EY but not on products from inside EY.
Re: Kehillos - "Ask Rabbi Kuber." Rabbi Kuber is currently not enthusiastic about Kehillos.
Re: Bet Yosef - Their chicken is shechted in the same facility as Eida chicken and by the same shochtim. Nevertheless, unless we are stuck, preferred not. (This is said to be because of the shidduch prospects of our kids, or something.)

This should not be said to be a rejection of other hechsherim on the list (though none make it into the top category), but this is what I was mekabel from him in conversation.

You make some good points but i believe that this list is not put out for Bnei Aliya who live in Eretz Yisroel and live in areas (i.e. Yerushalayim) where all Hechsherim are available all the time. I know many people who only rely on the 4 you mentioned in the beginning of your post. Or even less.

But the list seems to be for visitors and tourists or people who must/are looking to rely on a lower than ideal Hechsher as long as its "Kosher according to most/almost all Frum Jews". For this, this list is amazing. Instead of people relying on the "Hebrew letters" Kula or "Listen, the Rabbi has a big beard" Kula, they can get real information on what is acceptable, what is ok, what is preferably not ok but if your stuck..., and what is never ok.

[Darth1]

Re: ZNT - not currently recommended.
Re: Iggud Harabonim, Manchester (Rav Westheim Z"L) - RYBs said we can use him on products from outside EY but not on products from inside EY.

I'm assuming RYB gets most of his information from his mechuten, R Kuber. R Kuber does hold of ZNT on restaurants (besides for Skyline) and only has an issue with the home businesses, (he wants it to be run more like RYB home business hechsher was run). In regards to Iggud Harabonim Manchester, R Kuber said he recently (sometime in the past month or two) did a deep dive into there kashrus and found everything to be up to good standard.

[mevinyavin]

You make some good points but i believe that this list is not put out for Bnei Aliya who live in Eretz Yisroel and live in areas (i.e. Yerushalayim) where all Hechsherim are available all the time. I know many people who only rely on the 4 you mentioned in the beginning of your post. Or even less.

But the list seems to be for visitors and tourists or people who must/are looking to rely on a lower than ideal Hechsher as long as its "Kosher according to most/almost all Frum Jews". For this, this list is amazing. Instead of people relying on the "Hebrew letters" Kula or "Listen, the Rabbi has a big beard" Kula, they can get real information on what is acceptable, what is ok, what is preferably not ok but if your stuck..., and what is never ok.

Everything you said here is absolutely correct. Moreover, other talmidim are told to eat less than what I was told I can eat. RYB says different things to different people.

I'm assuming RYB gets most of his information from his mechuten, R Kuber. R Kuber does hold of ZNT on restaurants (besides for Skyline) and only has an issue with the home businesses, (he wants it to be run more like RYB home business hechsher was run). In regards to Iggud Harabonim Manchester, R Kuber said he recently (sometime in the past month or two) did a deep dive into there kashrus and found everything to be up to good standard.

RYBs gets most of his info from R' Kuber (I mentioned him in my post), but he does not always agree with his conclusions. But thanks for the heads-up - I'll ask him again. (Recently a huge amount of Elite chocolate lost the Eida and Igud took them on, so it would be useful if I could use it at home.) Agav, RYB generally doesn't like recommending hechsherim with qualifiers (it is more of a hashkafa than metzius thing, as MG noted above using different words). That may be why he didn't recommend ZNT for me.

[moko]

If you are asking specifically about CCSPT I dont have info from them, but as has been posted on ddf even the Rabunut has made recalls on CCSPT. As far as the Rabunut accepting Triangle-K just go out and look at the many many imported products that have a Triangle-K and an ishur from the Rabunut. I have also heard first hand from someone who went and asked multiple mashgichim if they would allow Triangle-K in the establishments they were supervising and they said they would. Its possible this may not be official policy as @moko said:

my source on this is me and my colleagues/employee(s).
From experience, I don't think any Kashrus comments on this thread are going to sway anyone. Most people's minds are made up.
Even on local Kashrus issues where I have firsthand knowledge of some pretty serious Kashrus issues, the attitude is it's better if you don't tell me.
Frankly, in FM regards to the list posted, some of it doesn't align with my first and second hand knowledge.
I would leave CSBB where it is and bump belz down a notch.
Eidah is probably same level as rubin bit a more robust organization, whereas Rubin is a much more consolidated operation for better and worse.
I think KF gets bumped up in recent times.(there's a new sheriff I'm town)
Based on my personal hands on observations....while they may have more chumros and restrictions on ingredients, onsite hashgacha at restaurants is often much better at local Va'adim in the US than restaurants in EY even Rubin & Eidah restaurants.
Kehilos shchita and kehilos restaurants are not on the same level (secondhand info)
More to come.
Some info I won't post publicly

[mevinyavin]

From experience, I don't think any Kashrus comments on this thread are going to sway anyone. Most people's minds are made up.

I would be happy to be more machmir than I am now based on something you say, but I won't be meikil more without talking to my Rebbe. (Also, RYBs is clearly interested in any firsthand info relevant to his shitos.)
Thanks for your input.

Based on my personal hands on observations....while they may have more chumros and restrictions on ingredients, onsite hashgacha at restaurants is often much better at local Va'adim in the US than restaurants in EY even Rubin & Eidah restaurants.
Kehilos shchita and kehilos restaurants are not on the same level (secondhand info)

RYBs says both of these. I understood that Rabbi Kuber himself had issue more with the restaurants than the shechita. RYB's issue is that a reiasa on one thing makes him uncomfortable relying on anything more from the same source. As I posted above, his shita is more of a hashkafa than a metzius.

[moko]

RYB's issue is that a reiasa on one thing makes him uncomfortable relying on anything more from the same source.

then you're going to have an issue with just about every hashgacha in the world

[mevinyavin]

then you're going to have an issue with just about every hashgacha in the world

True. But it also explains why he more-or-less sticks to the top ones (the attitude being - they are all a risk, take as little as possible).

[ExGingi]

Not sure. From a kashrus group I'm on, here is a updated list.

This was posted on a Kashrus group I am on. Consensus was (more or less) that the top line mostly makes sense, while the rest leaves questions to be asked how those rankings were determined (for better or for worse).

[WAM]

they can get real anonymous information on what is acceptable, what is ok, what is preferably not ok but if your stuck..., and what is never ok.

ftfy

[Moshe Green]

...
More to come.
...

Nu? Where's the more to come? I think you're one of the only Kashrus experts (maybe the only Kashrus expert) on DDF and we could use your expert opinion.

[moko]

Nu? Where's the more to come? I think you're one of the only Kashrus experts (maybe the only Kashrus expert) on DDF and we could use your expert opinion.

any interest n a last minute Zoom webinar with Rabbi Zalman Krems and myself some time after  2pm eastern?

[ExGingi]

Not sure. From a kashrus group I'm on, here is a updated list.

Updated (and reformatted) version (I don't vouch for anything here, only posting because a previous version was posted, and for my comments below).



Kind of ironic (if ignoring the top two) to find She'eris at the top right and BK on bottom left (in a list created by/for Anash of Lubavitch @aygart). While I am somewhat relieved by the fact BK doesn't mention Chabad in his symbol, everyone knows who he is, and unfortunately the consensus of experts in the field is that BK isn't good.

Also of note is the fact that a certain "Lubavitch" Hechsher is completely missing. Reminds me of a video of Motti Lipsker explaining why he carries three different brands of chicken (three different "Lubavitch" hashgochos) and the attitudes of various customers. This might tie into my post about the worms in the Lubavitch cemetery.

[lifetimedeals]

Does Ishtabach have a mehadrin hechsher? Is it like the OU ? Wonder if it's an acceptable place to eat? Better asked which places in the shuk have good hechsher? Very complicated

[tavster]

Korean restaurant in the Old City
(Rabanut)