Author Topic: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander   (Read 21109 times)

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 60038
  • Total likes: 7306
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2018, 04:22:04 PM »
Maybe harder and more expensive to get a landing slot?
LON was just an example. Plenty of options in western EU.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 60038
  • Total likes: 7306
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yesitsme

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 3399
  • Total likes: 1108
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 04:59:34 PM by yesitsme »

Offline mord1

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 896
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2018, 05:12:29 PM »
Anyone want to proofread/share their thoughts?
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/el-al-diverts-flight-8-jfk-tel-aviv-twice-shamefully-flies-passengers-far-close-shabbos/
I guess I am a little late:  "where there would hae been plenty of time before Shabbos"

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11432
  • Total likes: 143
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2018, 05:36:36 PM »
Anyone want to proofread/share their thoughts?
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/el-al-diverts-flight-8-jfk-tel-aviv-twice-shamefully-flies-passengers-far-close-shabbos/


I asked this question on the main site but I am curious as to why it's ELAL's job to land anywhere specific before Shabbos. Aren't they "nice enough" for landing anywhere at all?  I'm just thinking "out loud" here-   not sure how I feel one way or the other.

My personal feelings aside... this article is sure to get 'outsiders' opinions that they didn't have to land at all. No?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Mr. CC

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 646
  • Total likes: 16
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Yerushalayim
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2018, 05:39:44 PM »

I asked this question on the main site but I am curious as to why it's ELAL's job to land anywhere specific before Shabbos. Aren't they "nice enough" for landing anywhere at all?  I'm just thinking "out loud" here-   not sure how I feel one way or the other.

My personal feelings aside... this article is sure to get 'outsiders' opinions that they didn't have to land at all. No?
there's a binding agreement that they aren't allowed to fly on Shabbos, maybe someone can find some links

Offline shapsam

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Feb 2017
  • Posts: 2550
  • Total likes: 423
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
    • View Profile
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2018, 05:43:18 PM »
there's a binding agreement that they aren't allowed to fly on Shabbos, maybe someone can find some links
+1 They can probably get sued if they fly Pax on Shabbos.

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11432
  • Total likes: 143
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2018, 05:44:47 PM »
there's a binding agreement that they aren't allowed to fly on Shabbos, maybe someone can find some links


So technically by their agreement they shouldn't have kept flying?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Yaalili

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 12201
  • Total likes: 263
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 151
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Crown Heights, NY
  • Programs: Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Spire, Marriott Silver, Radisson Gold, Southwest Companion Pass, Wyndham Diamond, DansDeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite.
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2018, 06:03:44 PM »
They'll have a wonderfull shabbos meals served by Bornstein catering.

Lol :)

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 60038
  • Total likes: 7306
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Mr. CC

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 646
  • Total likes: 16
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Yerushalayim
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 06:25:30 PM by Mr. CC »

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11432
  • Total likes: 143
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #71 on: June 15, 2018, 07:52:26 PM »
Thoughts on this one?
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/heres-el-al-gets-around-shabbos-flight-restrictions/
Nice and to the point. Though I still wouldn't be surprised to hear others (especially non religious Jews and non Jews) argue that its not their  problem where they land and how close to "Sabbath" they do it.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline travel agent

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 601
  • Total likes: 12
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #72 on: June 16, 2018, 03:02:11 PM »
Anyone know how many frum pax were onboard?

a real frum person is not taking that flight, maybe light frum.


Offline dovil

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2018
  • Posts: 88
  • Total likes: 29
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: israel
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #74 on: June 16, 2018, 07:24:50 PM »
a real frum person is not taking that flight, maybe light frum.
why do you say that?

Offline dovil

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2018
  • Posts: 88
  • Total likes: 29
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: israel
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #75 on: June 16, 2018, 07:25:20 PM »
arent you allowed to fly on shabbos?

Offline ycohen

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2014
  • Posts: 243
  • Total likes: 6
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #76 on: June 16, 2018, 09:56:14 PM »
My sister who was stranded in Athens shared some details on the extremely disappointing experience which is described below.

El Al straight up lied to passengers when they were in Canada saying they had not enough time to get to TLV before shabbos but they will be landing in London with ample time before shabbos and provide accommodations to all that needed. Non-observant jews or non-Jewish passengers will have option to be booked with a another carrier to get them to Israel Friday evening.

Most passengers were informed officially only once they were on the way that they are not going to London but rather ATH and they will have no issues getting to their accommodations before shabbos. Upon arrival, the 747 would continue on to TLV on shabbos and will take only crew since no “passengers” are allowed to fly on shabbos. They provided two flights Friday evening on another carrier for non-observant passengers to continue on to TLV on shabbos.

Now what actually happened was this...the only hotel near the airport in Athens had only a few rooms to spare and as many religious Jews crammed into them as possible (4-5 rooms available). Others who preferred to have hotel vs staying in airport for shabbos were left with taking a bus on shabbos to a further hotel since they basically landed minutes before it started. Many passengers opted to just take flight back on shabbos because once they arrived they realized they were in for a miserable experience. Others stayed in terminal. It was going around that the reason for switching to ATH vs London was that they figured a shabbos in London would mean all 400+ passengers would want to stay in a hotel and cost a lot more money. Going to ATH with the knowledge that it lacked accommodations and is not as interesting of a place to explore like London many of the passengers would opt just to continue to TLV on shabbos later in the evening, which is what happened. In addition, the cost of flying the passengers from ATH to TLV also saves a lot of money.


My thoughts on the matter since everyone else seems to have a take on this - I am saddened that fellow jews on here have harsh critiques of the religious passengers who took this flight. Although I understand some have a sudden necessity to share opinions on the matter you can’t know for certain every individual circumstances that brought them to taking this flight (medical, family emergency...)so not right to judge them or anyone for that matter. El-Al as a carrier knows the shabbos restriction it must oblige by and maybe it was naive to think that they would create a flight schedule with enough time that would accommodate circumstances like this one. Furthermore, once they knew they had an issue they did not act in good faith and mislead many of the passengers in regards to how they planned on handling the situation. I am sure every religious person stranded has learnt their lesson after this experience.

I don’t blame El-Al for making a business decision and limiting its financial loss given it’s just that - a business after all. That being said, they shouldn’t be blindly trusted in the future (nor should anyone be) to be your trusted “religious” sensitive airline of choice. Perception by many is that El-Al is trusted to put religious sensitivity as a priority similar to its unique security measures that sets it apart. Clearly this is a misguided mistake. Many passengers on board felt helpless in the matter and if the airline wanted they could have provided better alternative options to its passengers or at the very least communicated better with passengers on the flight.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 60038
  • Total likes: 7306
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #77 on: June 16, 2018, 10:29:31 PM »
My sister who was stranded in Athens shared some details on the extremely disappointing experience which is described below.

El Al straight up lied to passengers when they were in Canada saying they had not enough time to get to TLV before shabbos but they will be landing in London with ample time before shabbos and provide accommodations to all that needed. Non-observant jews or non-Jewish passengers will have option to be booked with a another carrier to get them to Israel Friday evening.

Most passengers were informed officially only once they were on the way that they are not going to London but rather ATH and they will have no issues getting to their accommodations before shabbos. Upon arrival, the 747 would continue on to TLV on shabbos and will take only crew since no “passengers” are allowed to fly on shabbos. They provided two flights Friday evening on another carrier for non-observant passengers to continue on to TLV on shabbos.

Now what actually happened was this...the only hotel near the airport in Athens had only a few rooms to spare and as many religious Jews crammed into them as possible (4-5 rooms available). Others who preferred to have hotel vs staying in airport for shabbos were left with taking a bus on shabbos to a further hotel since they basically landed minutes before it started. Many passengers opted to just take flight back on shabbos because once they arrived they realized they were in for a miserable experience. Others stayed in terminal. It was going around that the reason for switching to ATH vs London was that they figured a shabbos in London would mean all 400+ passengers would want to stay in a hotel and cost a lot more money. Going to ATH with the knowledge that it lacked accommodations and is not as interesting of a place to explore like London many of the passengers would opt just to continue to TLV on shabbos later in the evening, which is what happened. In addition, the cost of flying the passengers from ATH to TLV also saves a lot of money.


My thoughts on the matter since everyone else seems to have a take on this - I am saddened that fellow jews on here have harsh critiques of the religious passengers who took this flight. Although I understand some have a sudden necessity to share opinions on the matter you can’t know for certain every individual circumstances that brought them to taking this flight (medical, family emergency...)so not right to judge them or anyone for that matter. El-Al as a carrier knows the shabbos restriction it must oblige by and maybe it was naive to think that they would create a flight schedule with enough time that would accommodate circumstances like this one. Furthermore, once they knew they had an issue they did not act in good faith and mislead many of the passengers in regards to how they planned on handling the situation. I am sure every religious person stranded has learnt their lesson after this experience.

I don’t blame El-Al for making a business decision and limiting its financial loss given it’s just that - a business after all. That being said, they shouldn’t be blindly trusted in the future (nor should anyone be) to be your trusted “religious” sensitive airline of choice. Perception by many is that El-Al is trusted to put religious sensitivity as a priority similar to its unique security measures that sets it apart. Clearly this is a misguided mistake. Many passengers on board felt helpless in the matter and if the airline wanted they could have provided better alternative options to its passengers or at the very least communicated better with passengers on the flight.
Does you sister want to write up a TR for DDMS?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline elya

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 2344
  • Total likes: 91
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #78 on: June 16, 2018, 10:36:09 PM »
My thoughts on the matter since everyone else seems to have a take on this - I am saddened that fellow jews on here have harsh critiques of the religious passengers who took this flight. Although I understand some have a sudden necessity to share opinions on the matter you can’t know for certain every individual circumstances that brought them to taking this flight (medical, family emergency...)so not right to judge them or anyone for that matter.
Well said. Couldnt agree more.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 60038
  • Total likes: 7306
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Oh uh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #79 on: June 16, 2018, 10:54:22 PM »
My sister who was stranded in Athens shared some details on the extremely disappointing experience which is described below.

El Al straight up lied to passengers when they were in Canada saying they had not enough time to get to TLV before shabbos but they will be landing in London with ample time before shabbos and provide accommodations to all that needed. Non-observant jews or non-Jewish passengers will have option to be booked with a another carrier to get them to Israel Friday evening.

Most passengers were informed officially only once they were on the way that they are not going to London but rather ATH and they will have no issues getting to their accommodations before shabbos. Upon arrival, the 747 would continue on to TLV on shabbos and will take only crew since no “passengers” are allowed to fly on shabbos. They provided two flights Friday evening on another carrier for non-observant passengers to continue on to TLV on shabbos.

Now what actually happened was this...the only hotel near the airport in Athens had only a few rooms to spare and as many religious Jews crammed into them as possible (4-5 rooms available). Others who preferred to have hotel vs staying in airport for shabbos were left with taking a bus on shabbos to a further hotel since they basically landed minutes before it started. Many passengers opted to just take flight back on shabbos because once they arrived they realized they were in for a miserable experience. Others stayed in terminal. It was going around that the reason for switching to ATH vs London was that they figured a shabbos in London would mean all 400+ passengers would want to stay in a hotel and cost a lot more money. Going to ATH with the knowledge that it lacked accommodations and is not as interesting of a place to explore like London many of the passengers would opt just to continue to TLV on shabbos later in the evening, which is what happened. In addition, the cost of flying the passengers from ATH to TLV also saves a lot of money.


My thoughts on the matter since everyone else seems to have a take on this - I am saddened that fellow jews on here have harsh critiques of the religious passengers who took this flight. Although I understand some have a sudden necessity to share opinions on the matter you can’t know for certain every individual circumstances that brought them to taking this flight (medical, family emergency...)so not right to judge them or anyone for that matter. El-Al as a carrier knows the shabbos restriction it must oblige by and maybe it was naive to think that they would create a flight schedule with enough time that would accommodate circumstances like this one. Furthermore, once they knew they had an issue they did not act in good faith and mislead many of the passengers in regards to how they planned on handling the situation. I am sure every religious person stranded has learnt their lesson after this experience.

I don’t blame El-Al for making a business decision and limiting its financial loss given it’s just that - a business after all. That being said, they shouldn’t be blindly trusted in the future (nor should anyone be) to be your trusted “religious” sensitive airline of choice. Perception by many is that El-Al is trusted to put religious sensitivity as a priority similar to its unique security measures that sets it apart. Clearly this is a misguided mistake. Many passengers on board felt helpless in the matter and if the airline wanted they could have provided better alternative options to its passengers or at the very least communicated better with passengers on the flight.
Post on DDMS or DD FB page if you have a chance.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.