Author Topic: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander   (Read 41786 times)

Offline YMW

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #140 on: June 18, 2018, 01:26:10 PM »
i wasn’t on the flight but I’d like to talk to you!!
Let me know please when you have time!! ;)
+100  ;D

Offline chevron

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #141 on: June 18, 2018, 02:05:23 PM »
Chillul shabbos is definitely worse than lying

Since when? Everyone has different ideas of Zachor es yom hashabbat lekadsho and lo sases kol melacha etc.. and any ways it's bein adam lemakom unless of course, you cause others to be michalel shabbat.

But lying is hurting another and there's no justification, although many frum people in business justify lying.

Anyways, isnt sheishes yaamim taaseh melacha a mitzvas asei that everyone in kolel is oiver on?

Offline Geshmak25

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #142 on: June 18, 2018, 02:08:02 PM »
Anyways, isnt sheishes yaamim taaseh melacha a mitzvas asei that everyone in kolel is oiver on?
::)
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Offline YMW

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #143 on: June 18, 2018, 02:17:26 PM »
Anyways, isnt sheishes yaamim taaseh melacha a mitzvas asei that everyone in kolel is oiver on?
You are not serious?  ???

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Offline chevron

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #145 on: June 18, 2018, 03:38:47 PM »
You are not serious?  ???

nope. But who decides if chillul shabbat is worse than lying? because in the past, people lied so they would not have to be mechalel shabbat? Since I'm a frum guy and don't work on Shabbat, I need to get a leg up and rip off my buyers and suppliers?[


Offline Boruch999

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #146 on: June 18, 2018, 03:39:46 PM »
nope. But who decides if chillul shabbat is worse than lying? because in the past, people lied so they would not have to be mechalel shabbat? Since I'm a frum guy and don't work on Shabbat, I need to get a leg up and rip off my buyers and suppliers?[
Um, chiyuv skila and kares

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #147 on: June 18, 2018, 03:57:19 PM »
Since when? Everyone has different ideas of Zachor es yom hashabbat lekadsho and lo sases kol melacha etc.. and any ways it's bein adam lemakom unless of course, you cause others to be michalel shabbat.

But lying is hurting another and there's no justification, although many frum people in business justify lying.

Anyways, isnt sheishes yaamim taaseh melacha a mitzvas asei that everyone in kolel is oiver on?
And that's why its next to כבד את אביך ואת אמך to teach us not to accept homemade ideas if it is Mechalel Shabbat.

BTW since when is melacha only what YOU consider work, אדם לעמל יולד אשרי מי שגדל בתורה ועמלו בתורה.

I hope you send your kids to work from their bar mitzvah not to be nichshel.
["-"]

Offline chinagel

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #148 on: June 18, 2018, 04:53:37 PM »
I hope you send your kids to work from their bar mitzvah not to be nichshel.
why not before? chinuch and all ;D

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #149 on: June 18, 2018, 08:12:12 PM »
Right, because the Chabad Rabbi (who was in NYC at the time) has close connections with the people running those lounges, that they’re going to potentially allow dozens of passengers stay overnight and through the next day? Come again?

#blamechabad
I don't think he meant that.(he was being sarcastic)

His point was to blame the passengers for flying on that flight (which I disagree with, since we don't know each of their specific reasons)

Offline AsherO

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #150 on: June 18, 2018, 08:23:50 PM »
I don't think he meant that.(he was being sarcastic)

His point was to blame the passengers for flying on that flight (which I disagree with, since we don't know each of their specific reasons)

I reread emkay’s post and I see now that I misread it, oops 🙊
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Offline travelplus

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #151 on: June 20, 2018, 02:59:24 PM »
I don't think he meant that.(he was being sarcastic)

His point was to blame the passengers for flying on that flight (which I disagree with, since we don't know each of their specific reasons)

When the passengers booked the flight they did not plan for a medical emergency or a delay or spending the Shabbat at a hotel.


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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #152 on: June 20, 2018, 05:03:52 PM »
even without the landing in Canada, the flight was supposed to arrive 2 hours before shabath, which is very tight, & the flight left JFK a hour late, so a real frum Jew, not wanting to take risks had to stay in NYC & not take the flight.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #153 on: June 21, 2018, 01:14:30 PM »
Personally, I think Elal should asterisk certain flights and say that while they are scheduled to land before Shabbat, they won't go out of their way in the event of delays, and PAX should book at their own risk, or fly on an earlier or later flight.

I don't think Elal should go through the charade of sending new planes to Europe which does nothing to actually prevent Chillul shabbos (and ends up creating more Melacha with now 3 flight crews flying), and I don't think in the future they should make a stop before Shabbos to deplane frum people at all.

I think Elal was in the wrong here, only because over the years they gave the impression that they would protect pax on shabbos, and barely met that commitment. They ought to just be upfront and say any flight with a scheduled arrival within X hours of Shabbos won't be protected.

Offline shapsam

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #154 on: June 21, 2018, 01:47:08 PM »
Personally, I think Elal should asterisk certain flights and say that while they are scheduled to land before Shabbat, they won't go out of their way in the event of delays, and PAX should book at their own risk, or fly on an earlier or later flight.

I don't think Elal should go through the charade of sending new planes to Europe which does nothing to actually prevent Chillul shabbos (and ends up creating more Melacha with now 3 flight crews flying), and I don't think in the future they should make a stop before Shabbos to deplane frum people at all.

I think Elal was in the wrong here, only because over the years they gave the impression that they would protect pax on shabbos, and barely met that commitment. They ought to just be upfront and say any flight with a scheduled arrival within X hours of Shabbos won't be protected.
Then they'll face massive backlash for flying on Shabbos.

Offline SearchGuy

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #155 on: June 21, 2018, 03:28:58 PM »
BTW There is a Shita called Rabainu Taam (widely accepted among Chassidim) which holds that Shkiah is 59 minutes after sunset, and after that is Bain Hashmashos of 13 minutes till 72 minutes after sunset, based on that there was no Chilul Shabbos whatsoever

Offline YMW

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #156 on: June 21, 2018, 04:29:07 PM »
BTW There is a Shita called Rabainu Taam (widely accepted among Chassidim) which holds that Shkiah is 59 minutes after sunset, and after that is Bain Hashmashos of 13 minutes till 72 minutes after sunset, based on that there was no Chilul Shabbos whatsoever

How about:
Personally, I think Elal should asterisk certain flights and say that while they are scheduled to land before Shabbat, they won't go out of their way in the event of delays, and PAX should book at their own risk, or fly on an earlier or later flight.

I don't think Elal should go through the charade of sending new planes to Europe which does nothing to actually prevent Chillul shabbos (and ends up creating more Melacha with now 3 flight crews flying), and I don't think in the future they should make a stop before Shabbos to deplane frum people at all.

I think Elal was in the wrong here, only because over the years they gave the impression that they would protect pax on shabbos, and barely met that commitment. They ought to just be upfront and say any flight with a scheduled arrival within X hours of Shabbos won't be protected.

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #157 on: June 21, 2018, 04:55:36 PM »
BTW There is a Shita called Rabainu Taam (widely accepted among Chassidim) which holds that Shkiah is 59 minutes after sunset, and after that is Bain Hashmashos of 13 minutes till 72 minutes after sunset, based on that there was no Chilul Shabbos whatsoever
FTR, many Chassidim (whether or not, they know this is another question) only accept it L'Chumra.

Offline YMW

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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #158 on: June 21, 2018, 05:04:40 PM »
FTR, ALL Chassidim (whether or not, they know this is another question) only accept it L'Chumra.
FTFY
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Re: Uh oh - El Al #LY8 from JFK to Tel Aviv is diverting to Gander 
« Reply #159 on: June 21, 2018, 05:06:10 PM »
FTR, many Chassidim (whether or not, they know this is another question) only accept it L'Chumra.
Indeed.

And while it's nice to find a limmud zhcus, saying that there was no Chilul Shabbos is a stretch.  Maybe the passengers that deplaned and stayed in the airport weren't directly Mechalel Shabbos, but many other yidden unfortunately did.

ELAL management needs to understand, that from a Shomer Shabbos perspective, there's not much of a difference between having to be mechalel Shabbos by oneself, and causing another Jew to do the same.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 07:31:38 PM by ExGingi »
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