Author Topic: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions  (Read 5956 times)

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #135 on: July 05, 2018, 01:53:01 PM »
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Offline henche

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #136 on: July 05, 2018, 02:30:20 PM »
Here are some sevaras I'm thinking, although again, haven't really looked into this and many here have probably thought about it more than me.

1. CB, points on generic spend, seem akin to a rebate, which means you just paid less for the potatoes you were buying. Hard to see that as taxable.

2. Same with FF miles you get for flying. You just paid less for your flight.

3. IRS Announcement 2002-18 was about business travel. Your employer pays for your flight, and you get miles. If was like scenario 2, the employer would get the miles. So this is more like your employer giving you additional compensation in miles, but IRS was mochel it.

4. Points or miles you get from deposit bank accounts, seem most like interest income. Hard to see it as anything different.

5. MS from buying groups.  If you treat it as having paid less for potatoes, like under scenario 1, then your basis in the potatoes is less, and  you had a profit when you onsold it to the buying club guy.  So seems like either business income or short term gains (with various nafka minas).

6. MS from GCs. This is the weirdest one, because it seems irrational to say that your basis in a $500 GC is only $492. However, I can get past that weirdness, especially considering that you can trade GS below face value all over ebay.  So hagah atzmecha: If I buy a Target GC for $475, and then buy $500 worth of potatoes at Target, do I have income or gains of $25? That seems like an insane position to take.  But that's where the usual theories would seem to take us.  If you have a business, I would think very hard to argue that the money you are making wasn't made. But seems nuts that you have income everytime you buy a GC below face value and then use it.  At some point it may just come down to the optics.

These are just some boich sevaras--no idea how IRS thinks of this or what law is.

Offline aygart

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #137 on: July 05, 2018, 02:49:30 PM »
Here are some sevaras I'm thinking, although again, haven't really looked into this and many here have probably thought about it more than me.

1. CB, points on generic spend, seem akin to a rebate, which means you just paid less for the potatoes you were buying. Hard to see that as taxable.

2. Same with FF miles you get for flying. You just paid less for your flight.

3. IRS Announcement 2002-18 was about business travel. Your employer pays for your flight, and you get miles. If was like scenario 2, the employer would get the miles. So this is more like your employer giving you additional compensation in miles, but IRS was mochel it.

4. Points or miles you get from deposit bank accounts, seem most like interest income. Hard to see it as anything different.

5. MS from buying groups.  If you treat it as having paid less for potatoes, like under scenario 1, then your basis in the potatoes is less, and  you had a profit when you onsold it to the buying club guy.  So seems like either business income or short term gains (with various nafka minas).

6. MS from GCs. This is the weirdest one, because it seems irrational to say that your basis in a $500 GC is only $492. However, I can get past that weirdness, especially considering that you can trade GS below face value all over ebay.  So hagah atzmecha: If I buy a Target GC for $475, and then buy $500 worth of potatoes at Target, do I have income or gains of $25? That seems like an insane position to take.  But that's where the usual theories would seem to take us.  If you have a business, I would think very hard to argue that the money you are making wasn't made. But seems nuts that you have income everytime you buy a GC below face value and then use it.  At some point it may just come down to the optics.

These are just some boich sevaras--no idea how IRS thinks of this or what law is.
I could see number five just passing the lower basis to the end product and being a cheaper price for potatoes. The question would then become how to look at cash out strategies.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #138 on: July 05, 2018, 02:56:42 PM »
These are just some boich sevaras--no idea how IRS thinks of this or what law is.
Once you get past a certain threshold (arbitrary) they look at it as you are running a business (MS/GC's). Your net/gross gains are taxable.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #139 on: July 05, 2018, 03:06:59 PM »
Once you get past a certain threshold (arbitrary) they look at it as you are running a business (MS/GC's). Your net/gross gains are taxable.
How about the extreme couponers who are busy sending in rebates on everything they buy?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #140 on: July 05, 2018, 03:09:33 PM »
How about the extreme couponers who are busy sending in rebates on everything they buy?
Can only comment on what I know about. This isn't JS. :)
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Offline henche

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #141 on: July 05, 2018, 03:34:57 PM »
How about the extreme couponers who are busy sending in rebates on everything they buy?

That's all stuff you're buying to use.  You don't run a business by buying yourself stuff.

Offline henche

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #142 on: July 05, 2018, 03:36:25 PM »
I could see number five just passing the lower basis to the end product and being a cheaper price for potatoes. The question would then become how to look at cash out strategies.

You mean number 6?

The issue is that a realization event is when you change what you have, not when you end up again with cash. If you  buy potatoes, and trade for corn, that's a realization event. 

Offline AJK

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #143 on: July 05, 2018, 04:04:50 PM »
At some point it may just come down to the optics.

This.

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Offline dealsrus

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #144 on: July 06, 2018, 02:15:37 PM »
Anyone know about chase bonus points received from referrals (chase ink) if taxable, Does chase send 1099

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #145 on: July 06, 2018, 02:38:47 PM »
Anyone know about chase bonus points received from referrals (chase ink) if taxable, Does chase send 1099
Excellent question.
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Offline chinagel

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #146 on: July 06, 2018, 02:57:33 PM »
dont they purposely keep it under 60k/600 for tax reasons?

Offline Dan

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #147 on: July 06, 2018, 03:04:16 PM »
dont they purposely keep it under 60k/600 for tax reasons?
Yup.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #148 on: July 06, 2018, 03:11:56 PM »
dont they purposely keep it under 60k/600 for tax reasons?
1099 has nothing to do if it is taxable, correct?
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Offline gingyguy

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Re: Amex 2014 Terms and Conditions
« Reply #149 on: July 06, 2018, 03:14:01 PM »
ive earned around 60k points through referrals and never received a 1099 for them
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