Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain

[sky121]

See what yourself? Frum people asking to switch seats? or 1 hour delays for refusing to sit next to women?

Delays and commotion with men refusing to sit down next to women. 

[aygart]

Who is the victim?

In this case the falsely blamed.

[as2]

In this case the falsely blamed.

-.5 They may not have been the cause of the delay, but that doesn't mean they were not the cause of a problem.

[aygart]

-.5 They may not have been the cause of the delay, but that doesn't mean they were not the cause of a problem.

Maybe, maybe not. 99.9% of these get resolved very simply in a manner similar to someone who wants to shift seats to be next to a family member.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Maybe, maybe not. 99.9% of these get resolved very simply in a manner similar to someone who wants to shift seats to be next to a family member.

...and that is great. This issue is when they are not resolved. With your 99.9% it sounds like this happens on every flight.

[ExGingi]

Maybe, maybe not. 99.9% of these get resolved very simply in a manner similar to someone who wants to shift seats to be next to a family member.

+1

The 0.1% exception is when some bigot is involved and makes this into an issue it is not (discrimination, disrespect, etc.)

[Dan]

+1

The 0.1% exception is when some bigot is involved and makes this into an issue it is not (discrimination, disrespect, etc.)

The other .1% is when the person refuses to acknowledge or talk to the female seatmate or female FA or asks that they be moved rather than trying to move themselves...
There's a menschlich way to do it and it usually winds up just fine like that.

[aygart]

...and that is great. This issue is when they are not resolved. With your 99.9% it sounds like this happens on every flight.

I've seen seat changes on almost every flight I've been on including when DW and I were the only visible Jews on the flight (and we were sitting next to each other-no it wasn't us)

[ChaimMoskowitz]

The 0.1% exception is when some bigot is involved and makes this into an issue it is not (discrimination, disrespect, etc.)

Why does the person have to be a bigot?

[aygart]

The other .1% is when the person refuses to acknowledge or talk to the female seatmate or female FA or asks that they be moved rather than trying to move themselves...
There's a menschlich way to do it and it usually winds up just fine like that.

We are now at 100.01%

There is no question that Judaism is not exempt from its share of wackos. To stereotype based upon them is bigotry.

[aygart]

Why does the person have to be a bigot?

Have to be?

[Ygold]

-.5 They may not have been the cause of the delay, but that doesn't mean they were not the cause of a problem.

Perhaps it's the constant #FakeNews anti torah and anti frum press, and rush to judgment which allows Elal to falsely blame the victim? Perhaps it's our own Insecurity as frum jews in a western secular world, which causes us to believe false narratives, to magnify incidents, or to perceive positive incidents as negative ones, which ultimately allows for the vicious cycle to continue?

What if the scenario was different, would we still be so negative? What if we were talking about hindu's for example, or any non-jew, would we then have a semblance of respect for their customs and culture, or would we be just as quick to condemn and exaggerate incidents?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I've seen seat changes on almost every flight I've been on including when DW and I were the only visible Jews on the flight (and we were sitting next to each other-no it wasn't us)

I have seen people ask others to move for various reasons. I have also seen people refuse to move. Not once have I seen it cause a delay. I have seen numerous times on WN flights where people were saving seats that did get ugly.

[Dan]

We are now at 100.01%

There is no question that Judaism is not exempt from its share of wackos. To stereotype based upon them is bigotry.

This .01% probably makes up 75% of incidents.

[ExGingi]

The other .1% is when the person refuses to acknowledge or talk to the female seatmate or female FA or asks that they be moved rather than trying to move themselves...
There's a menschlich way to do it and it usually winds up just fine like that.

I agree with you 100% on the mentschlichkeit issue. But if someone behaves in a way that seems unmentschlich, is that a reason to react in kind?

Why does the person have to be a bigot?

They don't have to be, it's just the reality of the situation.

[ExGingi]

I have seen people ask others to move for various reasons. I have also seen people refuse to move. Not once have I seen it cause a delay. I have seen numerous times on WN flights where people were saving seats that did get ugly.

Exactly. And that's the point of the OP. This didn't cause the delay, and almost never does.

[Dan]

I agree with you 100% on the mentschlichkeit issue. But if someone behaves in a way that seems unmentschlich, is that a reason to react in kind?

Surely you're familiar with Newton's 3rd law...

[aygart]

I have seen people ask others to move for various reasons. I have also seen people refuse to move. Not once have I seen it cause a delay. I have seen numerous times on WN flights where people were saving seats that did get ugly.

Exactly, and 99.99% of the time seat changes for religious reasons are no different. The other .01% are typically due to one of the people involved being a jerk. Once you have such a situation it will be a problem whether the reason is religious or not.

[ExGingi]

Surely you're familiar with Newton's 3rd law...

Nah. I don't even have a high school diploma.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

...it's just the reality of the situation.

If you really believe that then who is the real bigot?