Author Topic: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain  (Read 14686 times)

Offline as2

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2018, 09:48:41 AM »
Perhaps it's the constant #FakeNews anti torah and anti frum press, and rush to judgment which allows Elal to falsely blame the victim? Perhaps it's our own Insecurity as frum jews in a western secular world, which causes us to believe false narratives, to magnify incidents, or to perceive positive incidents as negative ones, which ultimately allows for the vicious cycle to continue?

What if the scenario was different, would we still be so negative? What if we were talking about hindu's for example, or any non-jew, would we then have a semblance of respect for their customs and culture, or would we be just as quick to condemn and exaggerate incidents?
You seem to be the one here rushing to judgment. I'm not judging anyone. Very simply, it's a big problem of individuals on certain routes specifically, refusing to take specific seats. I don't care who they are or what they wear, that is unacceptable. You can request something, but you don't have the liberty to refuse to sit in your assigned seat. I could care less if it's about your allergies, religion, personal preference, etc. There are ways of getting things done, and refusing to do what you are supposed to, is typically the least effective.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline aygart

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2018, 09:56:28 AM »
I agree with you 100% on the mentschlichkeit issue. But if someone behaves in a way that seems unmentschlich, is that a reason to react in kind?
They don't have to be, it's just the reality of the situation.
כמים פנים אל פנים כן לב האדם לאדם
Proverbs 27:19

כן לב האדם לאדם - חברו לפי מה שאדם יודע שחבירו אוהבו כן הוא מראה לו פנים
The way someone knows his friend loves him that is how he will treat him
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2018, 11:17:00 AM »
If you really believe that then who is the real bigot?

I guess @TimT can dig up where something similar to this was discussed previously on DDF. When you constantly see what goes on in Israeli media, and how "tolerance", "acceptance" and "open-mindedness" is only one sided, the reality of the situation is beyond obvious. Case in point, recent event that took place in Tel-Aviv Rabin Square where mayor attempted to revoke permit for holding event due to said bigotry. Luckily it backfired on him in a big way this time around.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2018, 11:20:25 AM »
I guess @TimT can dig up where something similar to this was discussed previously on DDF. When you constantly see what goes on in Israeli media, and how "tolerance", "acceptance" and "open-mindedness" is only one sided, the reality of the situation is beyond obvious. Case in point, recent event that took place in Tel-Aviv Rabin Square where mayor attempted to revoke permit for holding event due to said bigotry. Luckily it backfired on him in a big way this time around.
All I am saying is someone refusing to switch seats does not make that person a bigot.
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2018, 11:21:42 AM »
All I am saying is someone refusing to switch seats does not make that person a bigot.
Nor a jerk. :P
Someone is a jerk for not switching seats?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2018, 11:22:27 AM »
All I am saying is someone refusing to switch seats does not make that person a bigot.
Absolutely not. But if same person makes a big stink about it, goes to the media, or even worse sues the airline, then that person has a bigoted agenda.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2018, 11:23:29 AM »
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2018, 11:24:59 AM »
Absolutely not. But if same person makes a big stink about it, goes to the media, or even worse sues the airline, then that person has a bigoted agenda.
Is that what happens most of the time?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2018, 11:25:34 AM »
Is that what happens most of the time?
Definitely not.

The 0.1% exception is when some bigot is involved and makes this into an issue it is not (discrimination, disrespect, etc.)

Do you really think these people who refuse to be seated next to female passengers never fly with any other airlines? How come we never hear about this with other airlines?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2018, 12:32:04 PM »
Definitely not.

Do you really think these people who refuse to be seated next to female passengers never fly with any other airlines? How come we never hear about this with other airlines?

I'm sure there is a percentage of travelers that will only ask ElAl to switch seats as they think that a jewish company will look more favorable on switching for religious purposes

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2018, 12:37:33 PM »
I'm sure there is a percentage of travelers that will only ask ElAl to switch seats as they think that a jewish company will look more favorable on switching for religious purposes
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conjecture
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline as2

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2018, 12:38:57 PM »


Do you really think these people who refuse to be seated next to female passengers never fly with any other airlines? How come we never hear about this with other airlines?

We do. I've seen these stories on DL for sure, and possibly UA as well.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2018, 12:45:36 PM »

We do. I've seen these stories on DL for sure, and possibly UA as well.

Link?

Are you disagreeing with @mercaz1?

I'm sure there is a percentage of travelers that will only ask ElAl to switch seats as they think that a jewish company will look more favorable on switching for religious purposes
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline as2

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2018, 01:01:19 PM »
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline mercaz1

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Offline aygart

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2018, 02:21:51 PM »
Maybe they wrongly blamed Chareidim, but it was definitely not in vain.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2018, 02:44:01 PM »
Maybe they wrongly blamed Chareidim, but it was definitely not in vain.
Law of probability? :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2018, 02:47:16 PM »
Law of probability? :)
One would think this is a lawyers thread. What's up with all of these laws? First we get Newton's law, then we get law of probability. Next thing we know this will end up in the SCOTUS. 😁
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2018, 02:54:58 PM »
One would think this is a lawyers thread. What's up with all of these laws? First we get Newton's law, then we get law of probability. Next thing we know this will end up in the SCOTUS. 😁
Trying to brush up on more than two syllable words for the upcoming SCOTUS discussion.
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: Shame! ElAl Blames Chareidim In Vain
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2018, 02:55:59 PM »
Trying to brush up on more than two syllable words for the upcoming SCOTUS discussion.
What's there to discuss? This evening the decision will be announced. End of discussion.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan