Author Topic: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday  (Read 1232 times)

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2018, 12:45:23 PM »
In this case, a Talmudic era boat would still be prohibited nowadays, but our modern cruise ships are entirely different entities never imagined or ruled upon by Chazal back in the day.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2018, 12:45:40 PM »
Why's that? I agree with the premise of your question, we don't generally change things even after the "reason" for them no longer applies, but cholov stam is a totally different situation.
Why is C"S different? People stopped keeping C"Y in the USA because they felt the government would enforce the halachic problem. Others feel that once there is a minhag, we don't change it even if times change.
I'll let @Freddie will talk about the timtum lev v'moach aspect.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2018, 12:46:59 PM »
In this case, a Talmudic era boat would still be prohibited nowadays, but our modern cruise ships are entirely different entities never imagined or ruled upon by Chazal back in the day.
Is that not a slippery slope? That would seem to apply to so many things we do, starting from s'feika d'yoma and going all the way down the list.
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Offline dealfinder85

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2018, 12:50:19 PM »
Why is C"S different? People stopped keeping C"Y in the USA because they felt the government would enforce the halachic problem. Others feel that once there is a minhag, we don't change it even if times change.
I'll let @Freddie will talk about the timtum lev v'moach aspect.
thats an argument against the pri chadash
rav moshes argument was that even if it is a davar shebiminyan, govertment makes it chalav yisrael
this is not the place for this to develop into a C"Y discussion, just saying it wouldnt fit into this category

Offline aygart

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2018, 01:00:47 PM »
Is that not a slippery slope? That would seem to apply to so many things we do, starting from s'feika d'yoma and going all the way down the list.
Sfeika dyoma is explicitly shemo yachzir likilkulo
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Offline Dan

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2018, 01:02:47 PM »
rav moshes argument was that even if it is a davar shebiminyan, govertment makes it chalav yisrael
this is not the place for this to develop into a C"Y discussion, just saying it wouldnt fit into this category
Can you explain why it doesn't fit?
There was a problem, but it no longer applies today (because people that don't trust their government for beans trusts them on matters of religion despite the government saying they don't actually enforce that).
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Online Mordyk

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2018, 01:16:13 PM »
its an informative thread. please dont turn it into cholov yisroel thread.   ;)

but i have wanted to take cruises many times.  there are so many issues that make me uncomfortable regarding shabbos...

Offline Dan

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2018, 01:17:50 PM »
its an informative thread. please dont turn it into cholov yisroel thread.   ;)

but i have wanted to take cruises many times.  there are so many issues that make me uncomfortable regarding shabbos...
Namely?
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Offline DTM

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2018, 01:18:20 PM »
Here is something else to think about: When Chazal said that boarding earlier in the week is ok, weren’t they speaking of non-stop trips continuing on through into Shabbos? Would that exception apply if there were stops for exit and re boarding on Thursday or Friday?
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Online Mordyk

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2018, 01:19:56 PM »
Namely?
in a hotel you can choose to do whatever you want so even if all around are going about their life its ok if you just sit tight. but on a cruise most people are getting off on shabbos. its just a kinda weird situation.

Offline aygart

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2018, 01:20:38 PM »
Can you explain why it doesn't fit?
There was a problem, but it no longer applies today (because people that don't trust their government for beans trusts them on matters of religion despite the government saying they don't actually enforce that).
R Moshe is that the govt regulation fulfills the requirements of chazal not the the requirements don't apply.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2018, 01:21:56 PM »
in a hotel you can choose to do whatever you want so even if all around are going about their life its ok if you just sit tight. but on a cruise most people are getting off on shabbos. its just a kinda weird situation.
So go with a Jewish group?
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Online whYME

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2018, 01:31:40 PM »
cruises today don't have the seasick issues of boats in the past.
Some areas e.g. the Drake passage are notorious for being particularly rough. I have no idea how modern cruise ships do in such water, it might still be a non-issue.

Offline nirc

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Re: Halacha Of Cruises Departing Wednesday-Friday
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2019, 05:50:08 PM »
I've noticed that Kosherica has several cruises that depart on Wednesday-Friday.

Does the halacha of not boarding a boat from Wednesday-Friday no longer apply on today's cruises?

Per Chabad :)

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/484239/jewish/May-I-go-on-a-cruise-on-Shabbat.htm